Stock 5E3 B+ Voltage

[straycat]

What is the B+ voltage of an original 5E3 Deluxe amp?

[KingCameron]

5E3 "stock" B+

You want to get somewhere between 330-370VDC, with ~124 at the wall.

The original amps were built to run on 117 at the wall, so you will have higher B+, than normal, if you are running an original transformer

However, I have studied this quite a bit recently and I can assure you that B+ voltage that is higher than 370VDC will result in distortion at all volume settings.

[straycat]

So which Mercury Magnets 120 volt power transformer should I purchase ? I would like to build a 5E3 to stock specs and have it perform like an original Deluxe.


Mercury Magnets Power Tranformers

FTDP Tweed -- stock B+ -- 380-0-380 unloaded -- #6452

or

FTDP-350 Tweed -- lower B+ -- 350-0-350 unloaded

[KingCameron]

Not the 380-0-380

I do not suggest the Tone Clone (380-0-380)

I suggest something lower.
I have an Axiom 350 (350-0-350) which is still giving me a 362V B+. This is the maximum value that I would suggest..still a little hot, but much better than the 392V B+ I was getting from the Tone Clone..
(Bruce from Mission Amps says they need to be lower than 370VDC, I agree)

I might suggest the Axiom 330...I haven't tried it, but I am willing to bet it would be a great tranny....most likely getting a B+ at 340-350V...right where you need to be! (I am thinking of trying one of these next)

I am still a student of the transformers that are available today. I have heard that the Heyboers are really nice. Their Deluxe PT is a 350V...so that should give you a sign as to where you should be with the voltage. Plus, it is supposed to be paper-wound, like the originals...

I have also heard of people using the Hammond 270 series trannys... I have personally worked on one Deluxe-type amp that used a 272BX (sold as a 300-0-300, was actually 350-0-350) which had the milky sweet Deluxe tone, sooooo I know this will work too and costs less. The problem with the Hammonds is that they don't mount (fit) well in the reproduction chassis, that most offer....a little rigging is required.

[straycat]

What kind of rectifier tube are you useing? Soviet or NOS?

Thanks for your replies KC!

[KingCameron]

I've tried 'em all

Howdy StrayCat,

I have tried everything from Sovtek 5Y3s to a variety of NOS 5Y3s..

As an example:
In a 5E3, wired totally stock, with a MM Tone Clone (392VDC B+)....I increased the power resistors to lower the pre-amp power buss to 250V. This put my 12AY7 at 115/side...ect

The least conductive 5Y3 I could find, in my collection, was a French-made RT with (600micro ohm transconductance), other NOS tubes I found were closer to the 900 micro ohm range,

This tube only lowered the B+ by ~10V! (this amp was still way to hot)

Thats right....the NOS rectifiers can help, but not very much...you have to have a lower B+ to begin with...the rectifier can't do it alone

[tubeswell]

PT
HT winding 325-0-325 anything between 100mA and 150mA (higher if you want to put in 6L6s)
Fil 6.3V 2A (3A if you want 6L6s)
Rectifier 5V 2A

OT
Push Pull 8k - 8R (or get multiple secondary taps so you can run 6L6s at ~4k)

For 6V6s anything between 340 and 360 on the plates sounds nice with a single bypassed 250R 5W or 10W cathode resistor

[Diablo]

I have no experience with a 5E3, but Mercury Mag lists the following choices for PT voltage:
380 - 0 - 380
350 - 0 - 350
335 - 0 - 335
290 - 0 - 290

The Weber 25130 PT shows 340 - 0 - 340 volts, and is about half the cost of the MM.

I couldn't find voltages for the Heyboer PT, but Weber sells these too for about $60.

[KingCameron]

Mojo Musical Supply

You can fine the Heyboer at:
http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/

Don't know the voltages on this one, but its $105 bones for the Pt and $67 for the OT...


If you go MM, I would choose the Axiom 330-0-330, or the 290..

Are you gonna want to interchange 6L6s in your 5E3, or are you gonna stay with 6V6s?

[straycat]

I am just a wanabe guitar player and only practice at home.I have built three amps already. My last build was a Marshall 50 watt 1986 bass circuit plexi.Extremely loud and does not really sound good at lower volumes. Turn it up and it sounds great.

I want to build a 5e3 because of the lower wattage(I know 22 watts is still loud) and to get more of a Fender vibe.I will be useing the 6V6's and sticking with the stock circuit for the most part.

I am leaning towards the Mercury Magnet 335-0-335 because I think it will get me close to the stock voltages.The 350-0-350 that you used was really close in voltages just a tad high so that is why I think the 335 will work.

Weber sells both Mercury and Heyboer. The heyboer do not show their voltages. I emailed Heyboer directly for a price and specs but have not heard back from them.

Thanks for the info KC!!

[KingCameron]

Coolio!

You got the right ideas here...
Lemme know how it turns out

[cminor9]

I am not a big believer in "boutique" parts. Of course, I am just Yet Another guy with an opinion, but please consider that Fender wasn't putting super expensive transformers (or other parts) in their amps. You could probably do just as well with a $60 Hammond PT and a $30 hammond OT. Are you sure paying twice that is really worth the cost?

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents, just trying to save you way more than 2 cents.

[KingCameron]

Pros and Cons

Agreed...Electrically they are the same, but there are some pros and cons

Pros: You can work with MM to get what you want, they have a satisfaction gaurantee that the stand behind...trust me I've tested it.

If you are wanting to keep a vintage look, the MM trannies will fit with your old end-bells....all your doing is replacing the iron in the middle.

If you get ,months to years, down the road and your trannie craps out....MM will fix it for you.

Its American made...I can't imagine putting foreign stuff in my Hand-made American amps..(where I can help it) Fender didn't use foreign junk in their amps either....I mean cummmon people...support the movement, buy from othe American amp junkies...and we'll all win!

Cons:
Cost is higher, until you buy 5 peices from MM, then it gets reasonable....If you need lower cost here, buy one from me, or another dealer...then they cost about the same as a Hammond

Know what you need....MM Tone Clones can be deceiving...make sure it is an exact replacement for what you want.

[straycat]

I am going to get my transformers from Bruce Collins of Mission amps. He is out of them right now and is waiting for a shipment to arrive at the end of this month.

http://www.missionamps.com/transformers.shtml

I have a custom head chassis on order from ceritone. I ordered an aluminum 5E3 chassis with no paint/powder coating.No holes drilled for the output transfromer/choke or the circuit board.

[Ringwraith]

I'd hardly say Hammond is "foreign junk"??

Sean