Beginner, want to build a TAD 5F1 kit

[motzu]

no one here is trying to give you a bad time, but posting that you're going to copy a book isn't going to win you any popularity contests either. Sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent.

To be honest, I had no clue that what seemed to me a perfectly innocent statement could trigger such a vehement response. I guess we just have different views on human nature: I prefer either to limit my assumptions or to assume that people will do the right thing, and apparently it was not the case with some of my interlocutors here.

C'est la vie.

That said, there are very helpful and extremely knowledgable people here willing to help.

I've no doubt that there are. Perhaps it's my fault, in that I've been too generic and need to learn a lot, probably not fun for experienced builders to hold beginners' hands.

I'm sorry if I've seemed otherwise. Merely trying to defend myself - calmly - against what I feel is more prejudice than reasoned critique. A constitutional right in most countries .

[JoeM]

Lets see if we cant get this back on track.

The 5F1 is probably a good amp kit to begin with.

For a list of recommended tools look here:

Allen Amplification - Kits Page

Scroll down below the kit price list to the bottom of the page and you'll see the list.

I dont think a temperature controlled soldering is necessary, but it is nice to have. I've used either a Weller or an Ungar (40W) for years.

Does the TAD kit come with any instructions, or is it like a Weber, parts only?

[motzu]

For a list of recommended tools look here:

Allen Amplification - Kits Page

Scroll down below the kit price list to the bottom of the page and you'll see the list.

I dont think a temperature controlled soldering is necessary, but it is nice to have. I've used either a Weller or an Ungar (40W) for years.

Thank you, I've looked it over, and it seems like I'm pretty much covered.
Excellent news about the 40W Weller.

Does the TAD kit come with any instructions, or is it like a Weber, parts only?

I don't actually have the kit now, but I understand that it comes with the schematic, a layout, and detailed drawings of the mains wires hookup. So no, it shouldn't be parts only.

Until I actually get my hands on the kit, I was looking at these:

http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/s...5f1_layout.gif
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/s..._5f1_schem.gif

I can't imagine the TAD documentation will be that much different. They claim the kit is pretty faithful to the original.

[motzu]

Here's a beginner-type question, in the schematic and layout, the 1500 resistor (rightmost component in the picture) needs to have it's upper (- side) leg connected to ground (chassis). A 5F1 I've looked inside recently has a solder connection directly to the chassis (which will work I suppose), but I can't figure out in TAD's small picture where the yellow wire supposed to go to ground connects:



I'm assuming it goes to the ground solder lug of the rightmost input jack?

[JoeM]

motzu,

You mentioned in a post above that you have discharge tool, so you're aware of the high voltages in these. At some point you're just going to have to jump in, and if you get stuck ask questions. Follow the diagram carefully and double check all your wiring.

I dont have one since I dont do many amp kits, but a light bulb limiter is really good to have when you first fire up the amp.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/SPO_Test.htm


More good info here:

Tube Amp FAQ Index

[JoeM]

Here's a beginner-type question, in the schematic and layout, the 1500 resistor (rightmost component in the picture) needs to have it's upper (- side) leg connected to ground (chassis). A 5F1 I've looked inside recently has a solder connection directly to the chassis (which will work I suppose), but I can't figure out in TAD's small picture where the yellow wire supposed to go to ground connects:



I'm assuming it goes to the ground solder lug of the rightmost input jack?

Looks like it. Where do the other grounds connect?

[motzu]

Does the TAD kit come with any instructions, or is it like a Weber, parts only?

Oh, and to answer your question fully, TAD also provides a page with pictures taken for each stage of the build (they do a demo build). The pictures are not very detailed, but they're good enough to help out a lot.

I've posted the link in my initial post, but here it is again: Amp Kit: Tweed Champ 5F1 - Amp Kit Projekte - TAD Online Shop

[motzu]

Looks like it. Where do the other grounds connect?

The mains ground goes to a solder lug held by one of the screws holding the input transformer:





I can't really make out where the capacitors go to ground in the TAD pictures though. I assume the TAD layout will make this clearer, if not I'll probably email TAD to make sure. I think the leftmost filtering cap probably goes to ground on the other solder lug connected with the transformer screw - otherwise what's the point of it? The other capacitor, I can't figure out where it's going to ground from the pictures.

If the question was is it star-grounded, no, it doesn't seem to be.

[motzu]

I dont have one since I dont do many amp kits, but a light bulb limiter is really good to have when you first fire up the amp.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/SPO_Test.htm

Thank you, will definitely look into it.

[JHow]

So far, creating this thread on this forum has done this for me:

1. had someone trying to convince me to give up because I'm not an expert;
2. managed to spark a discussion wherein I've been called a thief and a counterfeiter;
3. had me post answers to some of my own questions;
4. got no replies (other than the book recommendation, for which, in spite of all the diversions, I am still grateful) that answered any of my actual questions.

Yikes! Don't get offended. To address your concerns:

I suggested you go ahead and build it yourself - how else would you learn anything.

I do think that making a xerox of a work in the library for your own personal use is okay - I would not have gotten through graduate school without this technique - many items were hard to find, out of print, or the library only had one copy.

I agree that authors should be paid for their work, but I also think that in these days of easy reproduction and print-on-demand, there is tremendous price-pressure on content (ask the dying recording companies, ask the dying newspapers, ask the struggling publishing houses (unless you happen to sell textbooks to govt. schools)). TUT obviously inhabits a niche-market, but my suspiscion is that it may be over-priced even for that niche. I dont know, and it's not my problem, but it's possible.

To address your five orginal questions:

1. We established the 40W iron is fine. Almost any soldering iron will work here - unless you try to solder directly to the chassis - that will take a bit more heat - but soldering is an ancient skill that was done for years using "irons" that were simply bars of copper heated with a torch.

2. Basic tools are all that are needed to assemble the kit. I think you said you had a DMM, so you should be good to go. Most important tool is information and knowledge.

3. As you noted, there are links on the forum where we discussed books and web sites. If memory serves, there was recent thread where we all listed our favorite sites and books. There is a lot of free information out there without paying $75 for a book. In fact in a thread today MerlinB (who has an excellent site called valve wizard, and is the author of his own book) who is a certified VKI (very knowledgeable individual) confessed to never having read TUT. TUT is great, but obviously you can learn all you need without buying TUT.


4. The TAD pictures are clear and look like a pretty straightforward way to build it. Twisted pairs for the hearters is good, you can take the 1500R to the jack ground, I might use different colors of wire to tell the different parts of the circuit apart (but that makes no difference electrically), other ground points I couldn't see too well on pix, but here is a free article from the above-mentioned MerlinB on how to think about grounding:

The Valve Wizard


5. Nope, I didn't build their kit, but it looks like a good reproduction with lots of information provided. If you run into trouble, the forum will definitely be able to help you out.

[fyl]

Counterfeiting is copying with an intent to sell or otherwise profit from the copies, usually trying to pass off the copy as genuine (such as money, or handbags).

Nope. Copyright is Copyright, counterfeiting is counterfeiting, one book copy or a full container or fake handbags each month.

Furthermore (and I only mean this hypothetically), I can see no difference of much consequence between my friend borrowing the book from a local library, reading and returning it without paying the author, and the situation where she would have acted as a proxy for me, where I would have read the book, if I never intended to distribute the book to others or make money off it.

Libraries have agreements in place with authors and publishers. Borrowing books from them is perfectly legal. So are fair-use copies like excerpts.
Copying a borrowed book or having a friend abroad copy it for you isn't.

So, rejoice! I won't be reading that book, and that guarantees that the author won't be paid by me. Had I read at least part of the book and found it worthwhile, the author would have gotten his money. This way, he won't, and justice will have been served.

The usual blah.

[JHow]

...So are fair-use copies like excerpts...

This is true, fair-use will allow you to xerox for research or scholarship, but portions of the work, not the whole shebang.

The problem is still a pricing issue, however. When you have a situation like you have with digital music, where reproduction costs (which used to be a large portion of the price) are now extremely low, the price must come down. Otherwise, piracy will occur. Once the reproduction costs are accounted for, the remainder is the value of the work - which for digital music, seems to be about 90 cents a song, or thereabouts.

Ultimately, purchasers vote with their money and pirates vote with their copy machines.

I think all the OP is saying is that the value of TUT doesn't match his price.

[motzu]

Nope. Copyright is Copyright, counterfeiting is counterfeiting, one book copy or a full container or fake handbags each month.

Here's the dictionary definition of counterfeiting: counterfeiting - definition of counterfeiting by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

You will notice that all the explanations include either pretending that your copy is the original, or the intention to sell it.

Libraries have agreements in place with authors and publishers. Borrowing books from them is perfectly legal. So are fair-use copies like excerpts.
Copying a borrowed book or having a friend abroad copy it for you isn't.

So, if I were to travel there and get a library card and read the book "perfectly legally", then return it and leave with the information, how would that be different than if my friend would have made a copy for my own personal use, I would have read it, and then simply stored (or, if you prefer, destroyed) the book? The library IS being paid in either case, the only difference is that another person reads the book, not the one paying for the library card. Should we make that illegal? Is it? Should we make my friend punch a time card every time she starts and stops reading, so that we can send the police over to her house if she borrowed more books than she had time to read?

[motzu]

I suggested you go ahead and build it yourself - how else would you learn anything.

You did, and I appreciate it. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss your contribution to the thread at all. All I was saying was that my decision to go ahead was, I thought, pretty much established from the beginning, and so whether I should go ahead with the build or not was not an issue at all - unless, of course, I had missed something very important, which didn't seem to be the case.

here is a free article from the above-mentioned MerlinB on how to think about grounding:

The Valve Wizard

Oh yes, I've read that - I had no idea the author was a forum member. I'm a lowly beginner, but I've read several of his articles online and he did definitely send out a guru vibe .

I'm honoured to be able to share this small piece of virtual real-estate with him - and all of you.

[motzu]

I think all the OP is saying is that the value of TUT doesn't match his price.

I'm not even saying that, all I'm saying is that I don't know if it matches my price or not - without being able to at least browse through it's pages. Actually I've always (even, or especially, for music - as was your example) paid for stuff I could have easily gotten for free because I thought they deserve the money for doing a good job.

It's actually what annoys me the most about the book discussion. If I wanted to get and distribute illegal copies of books I'd be out there doing it not debating it on a music electronics forum. It just bothers me that I have to create hypothetical examples and defend myself against 1. something I didn't really say, and 2. for something that's not even possible.

So please, can we end this thing now?