A couple of questions from a Newbie

[John Carlsen]

Hey guys, this is my first post in this section of the forum. I would really like to get into amplifier building and need some help with a good place to start. I already have some the standard books on order to start learning about circuit design and the science behind it. However, I'd love to get my feet wet with a small amp kit. I already repair guitars and make pickups, so I have a very basic understanding of electronics/basic components and soldering. My question is this, where is the best place for a first timer to get a kit from? I should also mention that like most of you, I'm a tone freak and I don't want to build something I won't enjoy playing. Anyways, if I need to provide clarity about my background in electronics/instruments/etc. just let me know. Thanks!!

John

[cminor9]

I'd get a Mission or Triode 5E3 kit. Just about the best amp ever. Seriously.

[NorCalTuna]

Yah I'll second that and, I gotta admit I'm pretty impressed by Triode. I used the MCI trannies on my last build and they're solid. Somebody asked me if they were mercury, I thought that was funny... anyhow, if you do that build and do it well you'll have a friend for life! There's also a million opportunities for tinkering with that, adding vib, playing with cathode caps...

[John Carlsen]

How do you guys feel about Marsh and Mojo kits? Am I correct in remembering that the Marsh kits use Mojo parts, but they tweak them a bit and give instructions? I really like the look of the Marsh Princeton and Tweed champs and the clips have been stunningly good.

[cminor9]

I haven't used a mojo kit. I have bought stuff from Mojo and like them as a vendor for some things but have never done a kit. They seem to market themselves well, and that alone kinda scares me (illogical? maybe). This is because when it comes to vintage guitar gear, there is a lot of snake oil. Some guys pay a ton of money for paper-bobbin MM transformers, foil-in-oil audiophile grade caps, etc, and Mojo tends to play into this pretty well. Maybe they're smart businessmen, but it all seems a bit exploitative. Just my take, I am subject to being wrong about this as is any random person on the internet.

I have heard of Marsh, but know nothing about them.

Mission is run by Bruce Collins, a pretty regular contributor to this site and he seems to be a pretty no-BS, straight up kinda guy. The guy could probably market himself better more along the lines of mojo, but he seems to be a substance over flash kinda guy. Personally, I respect that. Maybe I just like the idea that the guy behind mission knows what is talking about. I don't know who selects parts for Mojo kits, and while he may post here he could also be an MBA type who just picks stuff with the greatest profit margin and brand recognition. Nobody's name is on the line. If Bruce's kits produced crappy amps, then his personal reputation would suffer. If mojo kits suck, then they could just rebrand the kits and keep selling them.

If someone were going to pay me to build a original looking and sounding 5E3, I'd buy a mission kit without a second thought. If the thought of building a cab, tolexing it, making a faceplate, doing the grille cloth, and prepping the chassis do not appeal to you, then this is a good way to go.

Triode kits, which are what I have built, don't come with tubes, speakers, a chassis, a cab, or any of that. It's the transformers, the circuit, and some other essentials like wire, power cord, etc. You supply your own chassis and cab and speaker and tubes. It's inexpensive, and comes with good quality parts. I have used the MCI transformers on four builds and they are very good. This kit comes with carbon comp resistors. If you buy this kit, do yourself a favor and spend $2 on some 820 ohm metal film resistors for the preamp's cathode resistors. It'll cut a lot of hiss.

Since I prefer to have something unique and hand built by yours truly this is the route I went. I like the flexibility. You can build a head (done that), a combo (done that too) and make the cab and chassis however you like it. If you like the carpentry aspect of it, then you get to build something. If you think you want to build something yourself and maybe tweak it a bit this is a good way to go. I don't think I'd feel good about buying a mission kit, with the nice polished, silkscreened chassis and all and go drilling on it. But if the chassis is a $20 hammond chassis, you can play around with it a bit more. It's not trivial to just move the circuit to a new chassis, but it's cheap.

In case you go this route, here's a tip: planning, drilling, and prepping the chassis is one of the MOST critical parts of a build. Take. your. time.

Bottom line: whatever you select, make sure it's someone who doesn't compromise quality (the cheapest switches, jacks, tube sockets, etc). You will spend a significant amount of time building the kit, and a significant amount of money on it. If you do it right, the amp will outlive you and will sound amazing even if you decide it's not *your* sound. Without going overboard on stuff like $40 pots and a silver plated chassis, get the best stuff you can. You'd rather spend a few hundred dollars extra and get it right the first time.

[GregS]

You don't necessarily have to get a kit to learn amp building. The book The Ultimate Tone Volume 3 by Kevin O'Connor is all about building your own amp from scratch. There is a lot of information on the practical aspects of building, wiring techniques, designing the layout etc. Also, there are a number of projects in the book of classic amps with both the schematics and wiring diagrams so there's a lot to choose from.

It is still more difficult than getting a kit as you have to design your own layout, drill the chassis yourself, figure out what parts you need and order them. However, if you have some facility with building things it is entirely do-able and very rewarding at the end.

However, if the kit is really the route you want to go that's fine too.

Greg

[NorCalTuna]

I'll throw my voice back behind Mission's kit here. Bruce is eminently helpful and his PEM nut chassis is an awesome piece. If everything goes mushroom shaped, bruce remedies it for 75 bucks!

BTW, that 5e3 walnut-pine-padouk hippie sandwich cab and bruce's chassis would be the beginning of an ultimate d, I kinda want one all the sudden...

There's so much going on in one of these projects that it's probably good to start with something known. Scratch building is awesome but probably not necessary for beginners. Even Ron Paul let Rand use training wheels for a few minutes I'd like to believe. The margin of failure is thinner when assembling other's known quantities, and ordering and procurement, which is sometimes daunting even for the experienced- or the cause of failure in industry, is taken care of in one word: "kit." A 5E3 is one of the best amps ever, an amazing place to train (although champs are more fundamental, d's are more relevant to bigger amps I think) with out making the step to chassis and board design and prep, which can be tricky. Thats even using somebody else scheme, it still needs to be laid out and actualized.... Isn't there enough going on already?

[big_teee]

John:
You will do find.
I just finished my first build.
It was a Marshall type 2204 Master volume.
I didn't buy a kit I just gathered the parts, drilled my Chassis, made the turret board and started wiring.
I thought it turned out good, and it sounds great.
I'm working on a head cabinet now.
Have fun that's the important thing.
Later,
Terry

[Topper]

I have built both a Mojo 5F1 and a Mission 5E3. Both are high quality. Both sound great. I have had good dealings with Mojo customer service and also with Bruce at Mission, who provides excellent customer service. In the end, I give Mojo a solid A and Mission an A+. Mission has a few extra technical touches I like but mostly it is Bruce's personal service that gives Mission the edge, in my opinion. But either one would be a good choice.

[John Carlsen]

There's some great info in here guys. I really appreciate it. I'm thinking of either going the 5E3 route or the Princeton clone route. The thing that really appeals to me about more of a blackface route is the end resulting tone. If you guys have any input on that, it'd be much appreciated. Is there any reason I couldn't start with a princeton type kit? I just love the tone of them. Does anyone around here have any clips of their fender builds? I'd love to hear some good clean tones if you have them. it's so hard to find good ones around the net.

[NorCalTuna]

I'd say you should build what you want and it's not a rocket ship, so as long as you take your time you should be fine. The fundamentals are the same, but the bf adds a more complex tone stack, fixed bias, reverb and vib. The vib is bias mod, so it's a little touchy, but again as long as you do a good job... I'd think that it's more likely that the instructions that come with those kits aren't as awesome as bruce's, but the chassis is bigger and easier to work in. P'ton reverbs are pretty much it.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I tell my builders that after no more then two tweed type amp builds, the next amp to try on is something like a Princeton Reverb with a 12" speaker and Deluxe Reverb transformers... CRAZY awesome amp... and 100% gig-able.

[stormbringer]

I built my first amp in 2010. It was an Allen Accomplice combo. The instructions were great (though no photos like tubedepot or metro) and the amp is outstanding. It takes pedals very well too. Dave Allen was quick to respond to emails, both when I peppered him with questions about which kit to get and after my newly built amp was blowing a fuse (due to a bad rectifier tube). I would recommend you consider one of the Allen kits along with the others mentioned.

I have read a lot since my first build, and I think I am ready to build from scratch. But kits are great, so I would consider building another one to save on shipping costs from multiple vendors. Once you have the kit, you can modify it any way you want.

Bruce - when will you offer a el84-based kit