New to the forum... where do I start?

[Ziggy]

Hi, new to the forum and I haven't any building experience. I have electrical background and am interested in building a tube amp. I assume the first build should be from kit form. What do you folks suggest? Where and what is the best option.

Thanks in advance

[Chuck H]

What do you do? Musically, that is.?. I mean, if you're a big box jazz guy I'm no going to suggest a JCM800 clone, right? If you're a metal guy I'm not going to suggest a black face Deluxe Reverb.

So, what do you do? What do you want that you can't buy or otherwise afford?

[Enzo]

OK, first you have to read every single post on the forum, then come back and...

Nah, I'm kidding.

By electrical experience, you mean electronics? or electrical (as in house wiring)?

If you never built something, I think a kit is a good idea. Start with something relatively simple, a Champ or a Deluxe, say. DOn't go for a multichannel switching amp with features. Kits usually come with all the stuff, if you try doing it on your own, you will inevitably wind up with one resistor lacking somethere.

[Ziggy]

I enjoy classic rock, blues and jazz. Not into the heavy stuff. I'm a instrument electrician by trade, work in chemical plant. So building anything as per say, but use troubleshooting skills and can solder pretty good. But never built anything electrical from scratch, other than switching contacts off levels and PLC controls... lot of ladder logic.

I was leaning towards a kit, say a small combo type... been looking at them on Mojotone. Would like to eventually build a Fender Twin Reverb.

[Chuck H]

I enjoy classic rock, blues and jazz. Not into the heavy stuff.

I vote for a Deluxe Reverb kit. That should cover the bases better than most other options. Any Marshall build would cover the blues and rock stuff best, but fall far short on jazz. The Deluxe Reverb, if dialed in just right, will do blues and jazz with no trouble, though maybe not rock as well as something like a JTM45 (for your "not heavy" reference). The way I see it you (ideally) need two amps. First world problems for sure. Something like a Super reverb and a JTM 45 would cover all your bases forever. Both loud when sounding their best. I think a Deluxe Reverb could split the middle pretty well, cover a stage but still be of a manageable power level and not leave you short if you're only planning on one amp right now. It's not as simple a build as something like a Champ or a tweed Deluxe, but those amps wouldn't be nearly as useful for your chosen genre's. Going with a kit will help there because the bugs have already been worked out. And when it comes to reverb circuits there CAN be bugs. So...

JM2C

[Ziggy]

The Deluxe Reverb is a 22 watt unit? I was leaning towards this one myself... I would love to build a Twin Reverb, but dont think I need that much headroom. What is the diff between the deluxe and super?

Thanks for all the input

[Chuck H]

What is the diff between the deluxe and super?

Well the big differences are obvious. The Super uses two big bottles and four 10" speakers and the Deluxe uses two small bottles and one 12" speaker. A Twin Reverb uses the same basic topology, but four big bottles and no one I know really thinks it has the right tone for rock music. They tend to be harsh and too loud when clipping (in a nut shell). You could use a Twin Reverb strictly clean and get all your honk from dirt boxes. Some players do that. It's not the same. The Deluxe Reverb can be cranked into clipping without peeling your face off. The Super lands in between, but the 4x10 speaker arrangement doesn't allow you to use any popular 12" models that would offer good crossover tones for the three genres you want to cover. Also, and this might just be my opinion, I think 6V6's crunch up a little sweeter than 6L6's. With a little more compressed, but still pronounced top end so the Deluxe seems less harsh than either the Twin or the Super. At the same time when run right up to it's max headroom for cleans it's just as sweet as the other two for such tones. Also, it's a 1x12 with reverb. Probably the most popular combination of features in history. It should serve you well at home, in the studio or at most gigs and still be way more portable than the other two.

All this seemed obvious to me, what else were you looking for?

[Ziggy]

Sounds like thats what I'm looking for... appreciate the advice.

[loudthud]

If there is any doubt in your mind, go somewhere and physically pickup a Twin Reverb, then try to imagine packing it up and down a flight of stairs.

[Chuck H]

If there is any doubt in you mind, go somewhere and pickup a Twin Reverb, then try to imagine packing it up and down a flight of stairs.

Then down a hallway (banging up several door casings in the process) and heaving into and out of your car, etc... No doubt! Heavy amps with a low profile and a single handle. We use to call amps like that "wrecking balls". Swinging from a pivot point (your poor arm and shoulder) and pounding into everything around them

[mikepukmel]

Well the big differences are obvious. The Super uses two big bottles and four 10" speakers and the Deluxe uses two small bottles and one 12" speaker. A Twin Reverb uses the same basic topology, but four big bottles and no one I know really thinks it has the right tone for rock music. They tend to be harsh and too loud when clipping (in a nut shell). You could use a Twin Reverb strictly clean and get all your honk from dirt boxes. Some players do that. It's not the same. The Deluxe Reverb can be cranked into clipping without peeling your face off. The Super lands in between, but the 4x10 speaker arrangement doesn't allow you to use any popular 12" models that would offer good crossover tones for the three genres you want to cover. Also, and this might just be my opinion, I think 6V6's crunch up a little sweeter than 6L6's. With a little more compressed, but still pronounced top end so the Deluxe seems less harsh than either the Twin or the Super. At the same time when run right up to it's max headroom for cleans it's just as sweet as the other two for such tones. Also, it's a 1x12 with reverb. Probably the most popular combination of features in history. It should serve you well at home, in the studio or at most gigs and still be way more portable than the other two.

All this seemed obvious to me, what else were you looking for?

Ooo, ooo, Deluxe, Deluxe!!! And Ziggy could post lots of photos, and info about his build! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

[mikepukmel]

If there is any doubt in your mind, go somewhere and physically pickup a Twin Reverb, then try to imagine packing it up and down a flight of stairs.

I did that once.
Once.
(and in the same roady type helper session, moved a Fender Rhodes. Never again. Im too old to move that kind of equipment anyway.)

[mikepukmel]

Ziggy, if you do a kit, let us know what kind of speaker you ended up with? I was recommended a Celestion Black Shadow C90, and I do not like it (Sam I am) for any kind of music in this amp.

[Chuck H]

Ziggy, if you do a kit, let us know what kind of speaker you ended up with? I was recommended a Celestion Black Shadow C90, and I do not like it (Sam I am) for any kind of music in this amp.

I really like the Black Shadow for 1x12 amps for both clean and dirty tones. It's close to "right" for both (though not perfect for either ) I gave a like because there's a good point point made in your disagreement with this. TONE IS SUBJECTIVE!!! What works for you works best for the music. (<period) Because you can't be creative if you don't like the tone or feel of the process. In the end, if you do it right, what you like and are inspired by will sound good to others too. The medium has to suit the artist. (<period)

[mikepukmel]

I really like the Black Shadow for 1x12 amps for both clean and dirty tones. It's close to "right" for both (though not perfect for either ) I gave a like because there's a good point point made in your disagreement with this. TONE IS SUBJECTIVE!!! What works for you works best for the music. (<period) Because you can't be creative if you don't like the tone or feel of the process. In the end, if you do it right, what you like and are inspired by will sound good to others too. The medium has to suit the artist. (<period)

Chuck, eeek, maybe I just done did the amp wrong. Too much fiddling? I have some friends who do tech work (real electronics tech work like you guys do), make a ton of suggestions and I think probably that is part of it. Oh change that resistor to X, and try these caps ...

So, with the amp wired, and parts the way they are now, its pretty 'tinny'. Seems to roll off around midrange too fast. (Im not sure Im using the best terms here). The high end is a little shrill. When I turn the bass from 0 to 10, it doesn't have a lot of effect. Two suggestions I got: oh that must be the speaker try Warehouse somethingoranother and new production Jensen. But I did have a side project to go back to original spec resistor, caps etc, for most of the fiddling Ive done over the past 3 years. (And my ears aint what they used to be )