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5e3 build - fuse keeps blowing

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  • 5e3 build - fuse keeps blowing

    My home built deluxe kit is having problems and I can't isolate the cause. This amp has worked perfectly for over a year and a half and is essentially a stock build without many tweaks (I did put a larger value resistor [470 ohm] in by the filter caps and had the amp running at about 12.5 watts. i thought that would actually make it less prone to burning anything out and a the same time closer to the intended voltages). The amp has always checked out just fine (within normal parameters for this build) when I've tested the voltages on the tubes, caps, etc. and has never had any major problems in its short life. It performed exactly as one would expect this amp to and I've even built another. So I was a bit surprised when the fuse blew the other day when I turned it on. I replaced the fuse and tried again only to have it blow again. Mind you, the amp will turn on and the jewel lamp will light and such but it's when I flip the STANDBY switch after letting things warm up that the fuse blows.
    I started by replacing every tube - no change. I suspected the rectifier tube and tried a solid state Weber copper cap rectifier that I've used in the amp before. When I flipped the standby switch the fuse did not blow right away but instead took about 15 seconds. during those 15 seconds the rectifier started smoking and before I could hit the kill switch on the surge protector the fuse blew. it took quite awhile for the rectifier to cool down enough for me to take out. I took the copper cap off and both of the 10 watt resistors inside had cracked in half and were scorched to ashes inside.
    Long story short I've tested what I can with the amp on but in standby mode and voltages check out except for pins 2 and 8 on the rectifier. they should be about 5v right? Well I'm getting 340v dc readings at both with the tube plugged in and 0v dc with no tube.
    Any ideas at what might be the problem here? Could a short somewhere cause this? or do you think the PT has kicked the bucket? none of the parts are older than the build itself except for the NOS tubes I'm using. The amp literally was working one day and wasn't the next. didn't even move it from the spot it was in. I checked the outlet just to be sure and it's fine (about 122v ac). any help would be greatly appreciated!
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

    http://www.xkcd.com/730

  • #2
    I'd just like to say that I am reading the debugging page and will run some of those tests. Any advice in the meantime is much welcome
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

    http://www.xkcd.com/730

    Comment


    • #3
      sounds like you have a short after the rectifier tube.

      Have you got a light bulb limiter for start up?

      you have to find the short, could be a tube or could be something shorting between the tube socket pins or something on the board.

      You should first do a visual inspection for any burnt parts, have you burnt the 5K resistor between the OT CT connection and the screen connections?
      Are there any burn marks on the power tube sockets? etc

      Comment


      • #4
        unfortunately I don't have a limiter right now. I'm moving around with my wife who's in the army and don't have most of my equipment at the moment and won't until april earliest. If it comes down to it I'll go buy the parts for a light bulb limiter though. I'm trying to avoid that if possible.
        Visual inspection has shown the resistors to be ok. I've fiddled with all the wires and checked the tube sockets (but i'm gonna do that again and look for any pieces of stray solder or something that might have gotten in between the pins). I'm befuddled as to how this happened... the amp wasn't even moved so that why i'm worried it's the PT and that I left it plugged into the wall and there was a surge or something... but that seems kinda far fetched too. i had it plugged into a surge protector after all...
        going to keep looking for shorts! thanks. anymore insight is welcome and I'll definitely update the thread when the amp is working again or I learn anything new!
        Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

        http://www.xkcd.com/730

        Comment


        • #5
          You have a short to ground after the rectifier as was pointed out. You replaced the tubes, tubes being the most likley suspects. The next test is to fire it up with NO tubes other than the rectifier. If it still blows fuses, then I have to suspect the output transformer, not the power transformer. I also would be looking closely at the power tube sockets for signs of arcing between pins.
          Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Enzo, I tried firing up the amp with only the rectifier in place and taking it off standby still blew the fuse... I'm not finding any shorts anywhere. hmm. i'm stubborn though... only problem i haven't beaten yet is finishing that ring modulator... that was getting in over my head though. I'll keep taking the amp apart more and check those sockets. thanks! if it is the OT what should I do next?
            Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

            http://www.xkcd.com/730

            Comment


            • #7
              The fact that your screen resistor is ok suggests that the fault is in your OT or power tubes...

              Since it blows with the power tubes removed that suggests its the OT at fault. to be sure unsolder the OT centre tap from the first filter tap, then start it up with only the rectifier installed. if it doesnt blow the fuse then your OT is fried....

              Comment


              • #8
                yeah I tried unsoldering the center tap for the OT and ran the amp with only the rectifier and it still blew the fuse...
                Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

                http://www.xkcd.com/730

                Comment


                • #9
                  You might have a bad standby switch or a short right after it... like the wire to the first main filter cap or the cap itself.
                  Take the wires off the standby switch and run a jumper wire from lug 8 off the rectifier socket to the first main filter cap to eliminate the switch.
                  See what happens... if it still blows the fuse, then pull the first main filter cap off it's eyelet on one side.
                  Seems like a simple process of elimination... too bad you can't use or have a current limiter and instead have feed it fuses.
                  Bruce

                  Mission Amps
                  Denver, CO. 80022
                  www.missionamps.com
                  303-955-2412

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    good news is that its probably not the OT then, So do what Bruce said above.

                    have you got a mulitimeter to measure resistance/continuity to ground?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Bruce. I bypassed the switch like you said... still blew. then i lifted the negative end of the first filter cap - THE AMP STAYED ON! wheee! I then took the first cap out completely and tested it with an ohmmeter and it shows almost 0 resistance. It's a fairly new Sprague Atom and has no VISIBLE signs that it went bad. Should I now just assume that the fuse problem is only the bad cap and needs replacing or is there more I should look for? is there maybe a cause for its failure I should try to find and remedy?
                      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

                      http://www.xkcd.com/730

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What's the 470-ohm resistor for? Is it in series, to drop the B+?

                        At this point, I'd check the other caps for low resistance, put a good one in the first spot, and fire it up again.

                        - Scott

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the 470 is not in series but in place of the 250 ohm resistor. but yes, it's to drop the B+. Yes, the first thing I did was check the other caps and they check out fine. resistance off the scale. If the amp were ten years old I'd just replace them all for good measure but I think I'll be ok just to replace the one cap. Spragues are a little expensive after all. I'm just curious why it may have failed - like, if it could have been caused by something else wrong in the amp. I'm hoping it's just a dud that gave out though. I can't seem to find a place around here (San Antonio, TX) to buy the right caps. I suppose I'll have to order them... I just hate waiting! haha. Thanks so much for all the help guys! anymore input is still welcome. my next goal is to replace the cap and test the amp. I'll be sure to update my progress
                          Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

                          http://www.xkcd.com/730

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh, I see -- you bumped up the cathode resistor to cool off the 6V6's. Make sure it's not too close to the nearby electrolytics, as the heat can dry them out and cause them to fail.

                            - Scott

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              yeah, the cathode resistor. Trying not to burn out the 6V6 tubes as quickly. When this amp was designed the wall voltage was around 110v and since has become about 120v in most places. the amp is pushed hard enough at 110v so the 120v has been the cause for this amp model to have issues over the years - it ends up running around 14.5 - 15 watts usually (the ones i've built at least) and I've gotten this one down to about 12.5 watts. but yes, I have that resistor floating off the board a little and a good 3/4 of an inch from the capacitor that died. that said, I'm still gonna move it a little further now :P
                              I've been out of the electronics game for almost a year and am surprised how much I forgot. I was always an amateur but have studied hard and have had great success. I've learned a lot this week and will file this thread away on my computer as a reference for troubleshooting. BTW I use Jupiter coupling caps and highly endorse them for their sound. I was amazed when I first put them in at how big a difference they made in harmonics and clarity.
                              Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--/ I took the one MOST traveled by, / And that has kept me away from the freaks.

                              http://www.xkcd.com/730

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