5E3 Different brand caps in the different channels?

[cmattdabrat]

Thanks for the advice guys. Lots of good info to think about.

I think I'm going to just build the 5E3, try it with the band and see how it measures up. I like the idea of being able to swap 6L6s on the fly for more headroom as well as the line out to ad my time effects to so they're not distorted.

How difficult would it be to do what you described, Chuck H? Would you mind laying that out for me in a way that's easy to follow for a newb? What transformer (PT / OT) values should I look for / get? I was looking at getting the following PT and OT.

http://www.tubedepot.com/tr-pw-02.html

http://www.tubedepot.com/tr-ot-02.html


As far as resistor types and caps go, could you lay down a few guidelines for me to follow? So far what I gathered from what you mentioned is I should use metal film resistors in the preamp, and avoid Atom caps. So I should stick to Mallory 150s and Orange Drops?

[Chuck H]

Those trannies are for a Deluxe Reverb (AB763) so the PT voltages will likely be too high for a Deluxe (5E3) and though they indicate use with 6L6 tubes they probably won't give you the extra watts with 6L6's. My idea above requires bigger iron and I don't think it will be drop in alternatives for a 5E3 chassis so some retro fitting would be needed.

Gotta go to my day job now. More later.

[guitarmike2107]

Sheesh .. How can a site advertise a transformer with out putting voltage and current specs on the product page.

If that transformer has the same voltages as the Hammond deluxe reverb trannie then it will work in a tweed deluxe, But it probably won’t sag just as much
Your overall B+ voltage will only be slightly higher

[cmattdabrat]

Thanks, Chuck. I looked forward to your reply.

[hasserl]

FYI, playing thru a 5E3 is NOTHING like playing thru a Blues Jr, except for approximate volume levels. A 5E3 is a very different animal, one that many players raised on more modern amps have trouble acclimating to. One of the keys to getting the most from a 5E3 is to use your guitar volume control a lot. The amps responds very dynamically to the guitar volume control and to picking dynamics, there is a lot of variation there. Lot's of guys just always play with the volume dimed and not much variation on the picking dynamics, and they get their dynamics from channels switching or boost or dirt pedals out in front. 5E3's don't work that way. These are the guys that just don't adapt to 5E3's and are always posting on here about how to get more headroom. 5E3's don't have a tone of headroom, if you want a clean amp at high volume, 5E3's aren't the one.

Putting an amp on a stand and pointing it at your head is a sure fire way to get "ice pick in the ear" effect from the hf's beaming at you. You'll be miserable with that.

IME as long as the band understands how to play dynamically a small 12" combo the power range of a 5E3 or a BLues Jr works just fine. If the band doesn't understand that, then they won't and you'll always be outgunned. Volume wars are always won with bigger guns.

[cmattdabrat]

Thanks for the input. I agree and understand, hasserl. I was just using the BJ as a basis for comparison because it's a one channel amp and the output volume would be similar. That's one of the reasons I'm leaning towards a 5E3 build. The dynamics of it and how it responds to the input volume of the guitar. Whether dimed, backed off, light picking, or attacking the strings.

I didn't literally mean it'll be pointed at my head. What I meant is I would be able to hear it better on an amp stand reclined slight more so than I would with my current rig, a half stack that directs the sound towards my legs.

I think a 5E3 will do just fine volume wise cause I used a similar sized / wattage solid state amps before. We all play at a moderate level. The drummer gets a little loud sometimes when he gets into it.

[No457 Snowy]

I have both those Transformers in my Tweed Deluxe amp, they are made by Heyboer and the specs/paperwork supplied with mine say 354 - 0 - 354, Rob Hull at The Tube Depot will answer any questions you have and is extremely knowleagable, send him an email, the contact details are on the their website. The power transformer is the Mojo/Heyboer 761EX model so the specs are also available in a PDF on Mojo's website. They come standard in the Tube Depot Tweed Deluxe kit paired up with a GZ34 rectifer and work great and I think they make the amp a little more versatile with some extra headroom and no Bass flubber. Mine is the Export model (EX) with multi taps for various countries, including US. Here's mine after fitting to the chassis during my amp build:



Snowy

[cmattdabrat]

Thanks for clearing that up, Snowy! I forgot to mention the PT and OT I listed are the ones from Tube Depots kit. Basically, when I asked my initial question, I had my mind set on ordering the Tube Depot kit but with different brand caps and different resistors. I was really just trying to upgrade the kit with better components, really. And I was considering the idea of making my own turret board. Although, their PCB looks really good, easy to follow and I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Snowy, I recall you mentioning something their version of the 5E3 would allow you to install 6L6s?

[cminor9]

FYI, playing thru a 5E3 is NOTHING like playing thru a Blues Jr, except for approximate volume levels. A 5E3 is a very different animal, one that many players raised on more modern amps have trouble acclimating to. One of the keys to getting the most from a 5E3 is to use your guitar volume control a lot. The amps responds very dynamically to the guitar volume control and to picking dynamics, there is a lot of variation there. Lot's of guys just always play with the volume dimed and not much variation on the picking dynamics, and they get their dynamics from channels switching or boost or dirt pedals out in front. 5E3's don't work that way. These are the guys that just don't adapt to 5E3's and are always posting on here about how to get more headroom. 5E3's don't have a tone of headroom, if you want a clean amp at high volume, 5E3's aren't the one.

Putting an amp on a stand and pointing it at your head is a sure fire way to get "ice pick in the ear" effect from the hf's beaming at you. You'll be miserable with that.

IME as long as the band understands how to play dynamically a small 12" combo the power range of a 5E3 or a BLues Jr works just fine. If the band doesn't understand that, then they won't and you'll always be outgunned. Volume wars are always won with bigger guns.

Boy, that was very well said. You nailed it.

Volume wars are like nuclear war: the winning move is to NOT play.

[No457 Snowy]

Thanks for clearing that up, Snowy! I forgot to mention the PT and OT I listed are the ones from Tube Depots kit. Basically, when I asked my initial question, I had my mind set on ordering the Tube Depot kit but with different brand caps and different resistors. I was really just trying to upgrade the kit with better components, really. And I was considering the idea of making my own turret board. Although, their PCB looks really good, easy to follow and I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Snowy, I recall you mentioning something their version of the 5E3 would allow you to install 6L6s?

Hi,

Yes there is a detailed modifications section at the end of the build documentation and one of the mods suggested is to change out the 6v6's with 5881/6L6. When doing so it recommends swapping to a solid state rectifier and using +500 volt Filter caps (These are included standard in the kit).
It also outlines various capacitor value changes you can try and what results you can expect from each change, so the you can tailor and customise the amp's voicing to your liking.

Snowy

[Chuck H]

Well I don't think you'll get very exiting performance from 6L6 tubes using those transformers. That OT is just too small. The PT will sag a bit. Just lack lustre. Marginally more performance than you'll get if you stick with the small bottles.

I'd use Hammonds. OT model 1620 available at Radio Daze for $54.22 and 272FX PT available at Radio Daze for $60.92

For a total extra cost of $10.24 to get the higher performance transformers.

With this iron you will get very respectable performance from 6V6's and if you bump to 6L6's in fixed bias and a diode rectifier you can easily get 40 watts. IMHE there's nothing to be lost by using slightly oversized iron and it greatly improves the tube swap benefits. The 1620 with a 6600 primary should be just fine with the big or small bottles. The PT at 300-0-300 is perfect for 6V6's with a 5Y3 rectifier for a tweed Deluxe and affords the extra mA on the secondary to carry the 6L6's into some more impressive performance.

In fairness I need to say that one thing you will lose with the bigger iron is some OT saturation (rolls off frequencies at the top and bottom) which is part of the "classic" 5E3 sound. That Deluxe Reverb OT (listed above) won't saturate much either with 6V6 tubes though. You probably won't lose much "sag" (attack envelope) from the bigger PT since the majority of sag effect in the 5E3 comes from the rectifier tube and the cathode bias.

IMHO this Hammond iron combined with switchable bias and rectifier would make for a very versitile 5E3 type amp.

Also JMHO but the PT listed above, being made for a Deluxe Reverb, will have too much voltage for a 5E3. The 5E3 can sound hashy and brash with high volts and 6V6 tubes. 6L6's are fine at higher voltages though. And my ideas outlined above along with the Hammond PT would give a more ideal voltage and current capacity environment for either tube in a 5E3 type circuit.

JM2C

[cmattdabrat]

Well I don't think you'll get very exiting performance from 6L6 tubes using those transformers. That OT is just too small. The PT will sag a bit. Just lack lustre. Marginally more performance than you'll get if you stick with the small bottles.

I'd use Hammonds. OT model 1620 available at Radio Daze for $54.22 and 272FX PT available at Radio Daze for $60.92

For a total extra cost of $10.24 to get the higher performance transformers.

With this iron you will get very respectable performance from 6V6's and if you bump to 6L6's in fixed bias and a diode rectifier you can easily get 40 watts. IMHE there's nothing to be lost by using slightly oversized iron and it greatly improves the tube swap benefits. The 1620 with a 6600 primary should be just fine with the big or small bottles. The PT at 300-0-300 is perfect for 6V6's with a 5Y3 rectifier for a tweed Deluxe and affords the extra mA on the secondary to carry the 6L6's into some more impressive performance.

In fairness I need to say that one thing you will lose with the bigger iron is some OT saturation (rolls off frequencies at the top and bottom) which is part of the "classic" 5E3 sound. That Deluxe Reverb OT (listed above) won't saturate much either with 6V6 tubes though. You probably won't lose much "sag" (attack envelope) from the bigger PT since the majority of sag effect in the 5E3 comes from the rectifier tube and the cathode bias.

IMHO this Hammond iron combined with switchable bias and rectifier would make for a very versitile 5E3 type amp.

Also JMHO but the PT listed above, being made for a Deluxe Reverb, will have too much voltage for a 5E3. The 5E3 can sound hashy and brash with high volts and 6V6 tubes. 6L6's are fine at higher voltages though. And my ideas outlined above along with the Hammond PT would give a more ideal voltage and current capacity environment for either tube in a 5E3 type circuit.

JM2C

Sounds great, Chuck H. So, where do I begin with selecting the parts? I'll grab the transformers from Radio Daze, but what changes do I need to make to a stock 5E3 circuit to have this setup? I've previously gone through and hand selected each part on TubeDepot.com, but I need an easy to follow guide line as what parts to swap out to make this build happen.


Thanks!

Matt

[Chuck H]

Very little besides the trasdfomers. A couple of resistors will need to be higher wattage, you'll need a couple of extra switches and you'll need an adjustable bias supply (easy). I'm in a remote location for awhile and I'm not on my own computer so I can't detail it now. I'll grab a 5E3 schem and layout on line and "paint" the mods in Wednesday night. Then you can decide if it's something you want to tackle.

Cheers

[No457 Snowy]

Also JMHO but the PT listed above, being made for a Deluxe Reverb, will have too much voltage for a 5E3. The 5E3 can sound hashy and brash with high volts and 6V6 tubes. 6L6's are fine at higher voltages though. And my ideas outlined above along with the Hammond PT would give a more ideal voltage and current capacity environment for either tube in a 5E3 type circuit.

JM2C

Hi Chuck,

I think you are right about the voltage as I decided to knock mine down with some Zener Diodes, the B+ is sitting at 380V at the moment, I figured it was to do with the Export multi taps being a bit off plus my high 240V wall voltage, but is probably more to do with the way the OT is speced for a Deluxe Reverb just as you mention.

The amp does sound very nice though, noticeably better than any of the production built Fender amps I've previously owned in the past.

Cheers,

Snowy

[cmattdabrat]

Thanks, Chuck.