Spanish 5e3 low overdrive

[RedRooster]

Hello friends ....
I write from Madrid, Spain. My English level forces me to use a web translator to communicate with you, sorry if you do not understand something, to read your messages I also use it sometimes would not believe what he says for you ...

My first 5E3 is the result of my passion for the guitar and the blues. Also my hobby of doing things for myself, but above all the knowledge acquired in this forum, thank you

Anyway, my problem is that the amplifier does not creak, not broken, do not come to overdrive at any volume levels. The sound is clear, clean until 10. You do not have any strange noises and everything seems fine but I do not get natural overdrive, creamy supposed would get.


Orienting myself with many of the messages in the forum I will enumerate the points that I think are critical:
1 .- I have used PT Hammond 290AEX. Has a 240VAC primary. 230VDC meeting at my house on the wall.
2 .- I have used NOS Sylvania grinding 5Y3GT
3 .- I used 270ohm resistor on the 6V6 cathode


With this, the stresses are:

Wall: 230 VAC
Filaments: 6.17 VAC
5Y3 filaments: 4.85 VAC

Node 1: 333 VDC
Node 2: 283 VCD
Node 3: 200 VCD

5Y3:
8) 333 VDC
4/6) 320 VAC

6V6 (I have read the two very similar)
3) 331 VDC
4) 293 VDC
8) 20 VDC

12AX7:
1) 147 VDC
3) 1,07 VDC
6) 182 VDC
7) 13,78 VDC
8) 38,3 VDC

12AY7:
1) 108 VDC
3) 1,68 VDC
6) 121 VDC
8) 1,68 VDC

Seem a bit low, but it is not to get saturated?

5Y3 I recommend for getting a Russian to go up a little tension?

I changed the two valves of the prior and not get anything. It could be the problem in the Tung-Sol 6V6GT?

Sound tests I have done with a 2x12 with Celestion screen. You can influence this?

Thanks tubeswell, loudthud, Chuck H and especially bruce

[J M Fahey]

Please post the schematic of what you actually built.
Are you plugging your guitar straight into it?
Does it overdrive other amps?

[MWJB]

Better still, post photos of what you have done...a schematic will only show what you aimed to do ;-) Triple check your input jack wiring, people often get these wrong. With a guitar cord in the #1 input (amp off, no guitar connected) you should see 1meg resistance from tip to barrel of the free end of the cord.

I'd select the next lowest AC tap on the power transformer...all your secondary voltages are low.

[pdf64]

Mark, unfortunately his PT only has a 240V primary
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB290AEX.pdf
which is a bit disappointing.

RedRooster, is your guitar a strat or tele with low output single coils? If so the amp may stay fairly clean. Changing V1 for a 12AX7 may help the amp to overdrive in that case, or try an external booster effect pedal.
It is worth trying a different rectifier but it would increase the amp power output, not increase the gain or overdrive noticeably; consider a 5V4, you may find a NOS USA made type on ebay etc for the same cost as a Russian 5Y3.
Pete.

[tubeswell]

Hi RedRooster, apart from what the others have said, what are your HT voltages like in the pre-amp (measured from the pre-amp filter cap node to ground)? And also what sort of OT are you using?

[pdf64]

Node 1: 333 VDC
Node 2: 283 VCD
Node 3: 200 VCD

I think RedRooster has written one of the most comprehensive voltage listing of an amp that I've seen. Nominate for the best 1st post award? Pete.

[tubeswell]

Node 1: 333 VDC
Node 2: 283 VCD
Node 3: 200 VCD

I think RedRooster has written one of the most comprehensive voltage listing of an amp that I've seen. Nominate for the best 1st post award? Pete.

Oops right you are. So those voltages look alright for a v1 stage.

RedRooster, with the 5E3 tweed vol controls being interactive, you have to have the 'non-active' vol pot would back to about 2/3 of maximum and the treble pot at full treble, with the 'active' vol pot at full to get the most gain. How did have the vol pots configured when you did your volume test?

[RedRooster]

Hello everyone.
The amp sounds nice ..., but very clean, in all configurations of the two volumes I've tried. The crunch comes near the end of the trail, about 10, 11
I'm stubborn as a mule, so I ordered a handmade transformer with primary voltages in the 230V and 370V in the secondary (no-load voltage) and hope to find a voltage B + of 370VDC.
Tubeswell the transformer is a Hammond 290AEX has 240V primary and a no-load voltage of 350V. As I have 227v wall, reached only 330V with no load.

The tests I've done Stratocaster with Texas Special

Hammond transformer will use it for another project, ......ŋ 5F1 ..? (Accept proposals). For that project will use a Russian 5Y3 if necessary.
But on the 5E3 I use the Sylvania USA

I hope to find some time to take some pictures and present my tweed at the moment is getting pretty (Tolex, grillcloth ....) and clearing his voice (rather dirty)

A greeting from Spain "amiquetes"

[tubeswell]

Even with 330 V on the plates, you should still be able to get break-up starting in at around '3' (on a scale of 1-10) on the volume dial with a 5E3 circuit. I doubt that the PT voltages would be causing the cleaness you are experiencing. You need higher voltages (than what you have got) to get that sort of headroom. More likely causes are the way the pre-amp stages are set up for gain, incl the size of the coupling caps, or the size of the OT?, or the way you have the input jacks wired like MWJB said (see Steve Ahola's 2-step 5E3 input wiring picture for an example of a 5E3 input layout), or something other form of attenuation in the pre-amp that is keeping the signal from clipping.

[J M Fahey]

Hi "gallito rojo"
The small voltage difference is not the cause of your problem, you have a gain and/or signal one (or a wiring one).
Rather than switching the transformer, start by replacing that 12AY7 with a 12AX7.
Use .011 or .012 strings if you dare.
Be certain that your neck is real straight, then set string action (height) for comfortable play, then while pressing string against the last (highest) fret, raise your pickup until the string almost rattles against it, then lower it until it does not do so anymore, even when strumming loudly.
All this maximizes guitar output.
As on the electronic front, I still ask you to draw and post the schematic of what you actually built, *not* looking at the original schematic.
Sometimes you look 1000 times at a small error and don't notice it, because you have the original schematic in your mind.
A couple pictures will help too.
Buena suerte tío.

[RedRooster]

Thanks guys.
I'll consider your opinions.

Keep you informed when you check the circuit again

"011 0 012"? What "macho"..! Chrome-vanadium fingers.

[pdf64]

'"011 0 012"? What "macho"..! Chrome-vanadium fingers.'

Try tuning down half a step.
The great thing about good 11s is that they can take heavy pick attack without going ploink, their tone has more body than 9s (giving that thick lead tone), and crucially, when bending them, they don't have to be pushed across as far, compard to 9s, to get the raise in pitch.
4 fret bends, as in 'Whole Lotta Love' breaks, are out though.
The thing is, how do Schenker or Billy Gibbons get that tone and sustain using 7s or 8s?
Talent, I guess.
Pete.

[MWJB]

A pal of mine used run 018s...caused a few surprised faces when he loaned out his axe at jams! :-o Strings lasted longer than his necks! "What are you tuned to?"..."somewhere between Eb & D?", would come the reply....and he really meant anywhere between the 2, over the course of a song.

I know plenty of guys who run 013 flatwounds.

Back to the OP - 5E3s still work with 009 & 010s...honest.

[loudthud]

A couple of places I want you to measure the ohms to ground (chassis). The amp should be unplugged and the caps discharged. The kind of things we are lookiing for won't show up in the voltage checks.

Pin 2 of the 12AX7 should be 500K to ground regardless of Volume control position. The reading might change when you twist the Volume or Tone control but go back to 500K +/- 20%.

Pin 7 of the 12AX7 should be 1.056 Megohms +/- 5%.

Pin 5 of each 6V6 should be 220K +/- 5% to ground.

A comprehensive check of the input jack wiring can be found in post #10 here:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t12667/

Any significant deviation from the expected value is probably due to a wiring mistake or a wrong or damaged component.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I've built a bunch of these 5E3 amps and helped quite a few builders with theirs. If the amp is actually built correctly, regardless of what you might think is low B+ voltages, ... there is almost no way the amp should be anything but a rockin' dog with the volume pot set at 4 to 6!!
Other then voltages and obvious wiring errors, the next thing I check when I hear a complaint like this is the two wires going to lugs 7 and 8 of the phase inverter socket..... many builders flip those two wires around and end up with an amp that makes about 1 1/2 - 2 watts. Which is amazingly loud for <2 watts, but really dead sounding and no overdrive.
That of course doesn't mean yours is wrong, but to me, it does suggest some very simple part failure, wrong part installed or a wiring error.

Bruce