5E3 gets muddy as it gets warm!?

[AndreasA]

I usually play a strat straight into my 5E3 clone (5V4, 2x6V6, weber 12A125). I use the bright chanal 1 and set normal vol = 7, bright vol = 10, tone = 10. Then I back up on the guitar vol and ride it between 6,5 and 9,5.

After playing some time it seems that the volume drops a bit and that the sound gets more muddy. I am not shure if it is just my ears that gets used to the sound level and then compresses or if it really is the sound comming from the amp that changes as the amp gets warm.

During a rehersal/gig it seems that I have plenty of headroom to cut through at the beginning but after some time lack volume even though the sound level of the band is more or less unchanged.

Is it possible that the amp losses volume and gets a bit muddy as it gets warm or is it just my ears playing tricks on me?

Andreas A

[PlayItAll]

Andreas,

It's hard to know without being there, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the ear-fatigue theory. I've noticed the vanishing guitar thing before - usually the high frequencies go first. Try starting your jam sessions with the treble on your guitar rolled off just a tad. Then you'll have a little left on tap when your ears (and the ears of your listeners) start to wear.

One cheap experiment would be to plug in your guitar and fire up your Deluxe to the settings you mentioned. Then, just leave it sit for about thirty minutes while you surf the forums. :-) Come back to it and hit a few chords and see if it sounds bright with a rested set of ears. I'd bet it will.

Good luck,
Ed

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

My first impression is your ears get tired however, I see you are using a 5V4 rectifier, which will probably over voltage a pair of 6V6s in a stock 5E3 layout.
Let's read again what your power tube's plate to cathode voltage is and the actual idle current through the power tubes.
You might just be running them so high in current that they start going soft after some time.

[AndreasA]

Thanks for the replies. The guy who build the amp changed a component so that the 5V4 would't fry the 6V6s and such that I could also swap 6L6s into the amp if I wanted that.

I played the amp today and I think the conclusion is that you guys are right about the ear thing. It is mainly my ears getting tired however, I still think that the amp softens up a bit more that my other amps as it gets warm. That is probably duo to the fact that I never run my other amps (they are LOUD amps) that high.

Andreas

[RickyD]

Temporary hearing loss is likely based on your description. If that is the case, permanent hearing damage is possible.

When you perceive that you have lost volume and treble (tone muddy), stop playing for a minute and see if quiet sounds, like whispers, are harder to hear. After a few minutes, normal hearing should return. If this is what's occurring with you, a doctor could tell you a lot about what you are doing to your hearing. The concern is cumulative permanent hearing damage.

[AndreasA]

I don't think it is hearing loss. Just the normal compression that happens when your ears are subjected to music. We don't play louder than what a fender pro jr. can handle :-)

[RickyD]

Andreas, you can write me off as an old guy that gets too wound up for a forum like this, maybe you already have. I'm 56 years old and I've been playing since I was 14.

My ears never stop ringing, and I have some high frequency loss. I'm fully functional, but life's a little better when everything works right . "...normal compression that happens when your ears are subjected to music..." is exactly what I'm talking about. And a tiny little bit of permanent damage every time it happens. Not enough to notice at the time.

End of sermon. Good luck to you. Hope I'm wrong.

-Rick

[PlayItAll]

me too...

My ears never stop ringing, and I have some high frequency loss. I'm fully functional, but life's a little better when everything works right .

I hate to join in the preaching, but I also have tinnitus. I developed it when I lived in Nashville and was playing with a 40's style Big Band. It wasn't long before I noticed that the slight ringing in my ears after a show wasn't going away.

I've had it constantly, 24 hours a day, for about 13 years. Trying to get to sleep is sometimes the worst part.

Anyway, please consider our advice to be careful with your ears - we were young once too and thought things like tinnitus must just happen to other people. Earplugs have come a long way (I use the Sonic II's) and don't worry about being the guy in the band that asks (nicely, of course) if you can all play at a little lower volume. They'll tease you for a while, but be persistent and kind, and they'll start turning it all down a bit.

Playing loud is cool. I still do it once in a while for very brief periods, but a 24 hour emergency broadcast signal in your head isn't a fun way to face the rest of your days.

Humbly and sincerely,
Ed