Orange drops or Mallory 150s in 5E3 build?

[Dan Theman]

Planning to build a 5E3 and curious of your experience and opinions of what caps to use, Orange Drop 715P's or Mallory 150's?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Planning to build a 5E3 and curious of your experience and opinions of what caps to use, Orange Drop 715P's or Mallory 150's?

Built a 5E3 for a customer this summer, Mallory 150's and we're all happy with the amp including his friends & band members, all of 9 watts @ clip. FWIW speaker was one of my small amp faves, Jensen C12Q.

One thing I want to try is somewhat smaller signal caps to dry up the low end a bit. Next time...

[soundmasterg]

Original amp used polyester and paper caps for the post part, so any polyester cap will be closer to the original sound than a polypropylene cap. In other words, with your two choices, the Mallory 150's are closer to the sound of the original than the Orange Drop 715P. The Orange Drop 225P or the PS series are polyester and will likely sound better in that application than the 715P.

I have an original 1956 5E3 and all the original Astron caps leaked DC and had to be replaced. I used Mallory 150's and the amp sounds great. YMMV.

Greg

[Justin Thomas]

I use Mallorys mostly cuz they're smaller. Only problem is, the endcaps pop off if I'm a bit rough with em - the smallish ones. ODs are a bit more robust, physically. ODs don't quite look as elegant to me on a turret or eyelet board, but they're good for mounting on PCBs. I keep a few on hand, but mostly go for Mallorys. Electronically, I'm a caps-is-caps guy, not too cheap, not too expensive works for me. In a Fender ORIGINAL or CLONE, I'd go Mallory for LOOKS, but if it's a copy, whatever works.

Justin

[Chuck H]

Use both! Or neither! It really doesn't matter as much as many would have you believe. That said...

In a strictly non scientific observation I've detected some small tonal properties that seem exclusive to rolled polyester caps in BF type circuits and I prefere them at face value. I still use polyprops in my designs and builds because of their superior temperature stability. They de rate less when the amp is hot, so, fewer surprises. With a 5E3, that may likely run very warm or hot sometimes, it might be a consideration.

The last time I used polyester caps for a build I was appalled by the price of OD's and the 150's didn't have enough over another alternative for their added price too. I used the plain brown Panasonic film caps. They sounded great and I was especially happy about their slightly more compact package which made wiring crowded components on some circuits a bit easier.

On another note... If brand matters, most "Fender" guys, players and repair techs, seem to prefer the 150's

[Dan Theman]

... I still use polyprops in my designs and builds because of their superior temperature stability. They de rate less when the amp is hot, so, fewer surprises. With a 5E3, that may likely run very warm or hot sometimes, it might be a consideration.
....

I thought it was the opposite, the Mallory 150's can at least handle higher temperatures than polyesters -http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/150.pdf -
but that's maybe not the same as stability?

[Chuck H]

I thought it was the opposite, the Mallory 150's can at least handle higher temperatures than polyesters -http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/150.pdf -
but that's maybe not the same as stability?

I wasn't talking about the actual rated temperature range. And you'll notice that chart specifies a 50% voltage de rate at the top rated temperature. I don't know why they would even do that.?. And still, not what I was talking about. I was talking about a capacitance value de rate. Polypropylene typically changes value less than a few percent at any real operating temperature. Notice that this spec isn't even noted in the 150 data sheet (I'm no expert but I didn't see it). One of our more tech competent members here is quick to note that if a particular spec for a component is poor the manufacturer will often simply omit it from the spec sheet. One thing I can tell you for certain is that I've heard amps change tone from cool to hot. It's annoying. Especially when you're the designer and you're trying to evaluate what an amp sounds like. So I do whatever I can to make my designs and builds perform consistently from the beginning of a set to the end.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I thought it was the opposite, the Mallory 150's can at least handle higher temperatures than polyesters -http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/150.pdf -
but that's maybe not the same as stability?

Neither M150 nor any type of OD will be challenged by the heat inside a tweed Deluxe.

What I'd be careful of heat wise, is soldering. I have mangled a couple of Mallorys with too much heat on a lead, close to the body of the cap. Now I use a heat sink, gator clip or whatever I can find, when soldering M150 in close quarters. And try to remember to remove the heat sink when done.

[Dan Theman]

Neither M150 nor any type of OD will be challenged by the heat inside a tweed Deluxe.

What I'd be careful of heat wise, is soldering. I have mangled a couple of Mallorys with too much heat on a lead, close to the body of the cap. Now I use a heat sink, gator clip or whatever I can find, when soldering M150 in close quarters. And try to remember to remove the heat sink when done.

What type of heat sink do you use?

[Jazz P Bass]

What I'd be careful of heat wise, is soldering. I have mangled a couple of Mallorys with too much heat on a lead, close to the body of the cap. .

You have 10 seconds bud.
Starting....Now!

[Leo_Gnardo]

What type of heat sink do you use?

Alligator clip. Not the tiny ones.

Jazz I see they "allow" 10 seconds, I try to get the heat on & off it faster than that by far. Not-hot-enough irons ruin parts, but you know that.

[Jazz P Bass]

I guess the trick is to get the pad/ terminal hot & then the lead.

I add solder to the pad first & then continue the alteration, back & forth with the iron.

I put that "10 second" up kind of as a spoof.
That really applies to machine process I would imagine.

[Chuck H]

On that time note... I've only had trouble with things that dissipate the heat well to start with. Like pot cases (@#$%). My current method is to score the case where I plan to solder (in two directions) and make sure the wiper isn't on an end. With my iron set to 775*F I press the flat side of the iron tip to the scored spot and then press the solder to the both tip and case. Once the solder melts I pull off. Most of the time it welds. Sometimes it doesn't. I'm open to any better methods anyone here uses. I've ruined a few Alpha pots just soldering the lugs in good time.

[epis]

Hi guys,
I just wanted to share with you my 40 years of experience with soldering.
First, you need proper tools. Weller stations are the best. Do not try to solder pots casing with cheap 15 to 25w irons.
Prepare the surfaces on parts as it's needed, score the pots casing (just size of the future solder point is needed) Zinc coating on the casing doesn't help.
Attach the wires, component legs to the soldering post, eyelet, pot's lug. I like to make the hook at the wire end, push it in the lug and tighten it with needle-nose pliers.
Apply some rosin flux (I prefer liquid, but paste works well), just a drop, you don't want it to drip inside the pot. It doesn't matter if you're gonna use solder wire with rosin core or not. For non lead soldering wire this is a must. Do not use plummer's acidic paste for this.
Now clean you soldering iron tip and melt on it some solder, make a nice drop, right size isn't gonna fall of the tip when you put it upside down.
This drop will help fast heat transfer to the parts. Press the tip to the point you want to solder and at the same time add more solder wire if it's needed.
When the solder flows nicely and spot is shiny, you're done. If it takes more then 2sec to make it nice, you need to improve your technique.
When I'm soldering pot's casing, I like to apply solder first to casing, just to prepare nice spot for added wire later.
I'm using same technique, scoring the surface, adding flux, when applying the solder, I do back and fort ironing moves with soldering iron tip - do not push on it to much (again adding solder wire at the same time, as much is needed), that helps solder to flow and attach faster. It shouldn't take more then 3 to 5 sec. to do it.
Next step is just to solder you component leg or wire to that prepared spot.
About the heat sinks, most components in tube amps have a left length of legs more than .5" and there is no real need for heat sink, but if you like to use it, best thing is hemostat. I use it only for Ge transistors or diodes. (sometimes)
Well, that's about if, feel free to correct me, ask if something's not clear. I wish you all Happy New Year, best regards from Ottawa

[Chuck H]

I forgot to mention the back and forth motion. I do that. I guess it makes itself obvious with experience since we both picked up on it.