YOUR fav 5E3 tweaks

[hasserl]

Just one thought, what would you do with the spare triode, or are you not anticipating using a twin triode at V1?

I just realized this was for me, re my 5E3X2 project. At this point I'm not going to use it, but one of the ideas I've been floating is going to a LTPI instead of the cathodyne. The extra triode would allow me a second gain stage before the LTPI. I'll get it going first with the cathodyne and the LTPI may be something I'll do later on. If/when I feel like experimenting some more with it.

[vg3000]

That 5E3 Humbucker mod everyone talks about, is that as simple as swapping out the 25uf to a .68uf for the 12AX7's cathode bypass cap?

[RickyD]

That 5E3 Humbucker mod everyone talks about, is that as simple as swapping out the 25uf to a .68uf for the 12AX7's cathode bypass cap?

There's a bit more than that. The "5E3 humbucker mod everyone talks about" is sold by Bruce Collins of Mission Amps. If you search this site, I'm sure you'll find an explanation of what it does. That's Bruce on this thread about 5 back of here.

If you want to know what's in it and where to put it, I think you should send Bruce the $20 and get it all the right way.

http://www.missionamps.com/kits.shtml

[vg3000]

No offense, but $20 for a cap and a instruction sheet...? I'm sure someone here could point me in the right direction? PM me maybe?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

No offense, but $20 for a cap and a instruction sheet...? I'm sure someone here could point me in the right direction? PM me maybe?

Well offense taken buddy ?eek.
I have no idea where you got the idea that the HB mod kit is one cap and an instruction sheet.
There are three different mods in one HB mod kit package, a bag of parts and two of the mods are connected to their own, included SPST toggle switches,.... so they can be bypassed for a stock sound.
There is no .68uF cap even talked about in the kit.
This mod package with documentation is a great deal for any 5E3 tinkerer.
Sheesh!

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Bright channel: "It is the one that the tone control is actually connected to so,". The Normal channel is also connected to the tone control, it just lacks the 500pf bright cap. ...

Well, yes but really no.
It really isn't the same.
The raw signal from both triodes of the 12AY7 come into the volume pots through the wipers.
Look at the way the 500pF tone cap and circuit is connected to the wiper of the bright channel pot.
Now, the wiper of the tone pot is connected to both Vol pots at their junction, which forms a low pass type filter by shunting more highs to ground on both volume controls.
There is even more ways to dull the normal channel at different freqs by sending some of the signal through tone pot's wiper into the plate load resistor of the bright channel and subsequently it's filter cap.
That means both the bright and the normal channel can sound more and more dull but there is no way to allow more highs on the normal channel, which is the reason most players always use the bright channel.
You can not increase or decrease the bass in this circuit, only less treble or more treble and the normal channel has no way to increase the treble.

[vg3000]

Well offense taken buddy ?eek.
I have no idea where you got the idea that the HB mod kit is one cap and an instruction sheet.
There are three different mods in one HB mod kit package, a bag of parts and two of the mods are connected to their own, included SPST toggle switches,.... so they can be bypassed for a stock sound.
There is no .68uF cap even talked about in the kit.
This mod package with documentation is a great deal for any 5E3 tinkerer.
Sheesh!

You're offended? Sorry, don't get yer panties in a bunch now, LoL. I might take a look at those kits. I think a fixed bias with neg feedback mod via switch would take care of any flub and make it quite a bit more versatile. Honestly I think it's the speakers people put in these. I've heard no complaints from people using G12H-30's or the like with humbuckers. I don't think they have trouble passing bass like the stock Jensen.

[RickyD]

Originally Posted by vg3000
No offense, but $20 for a cap and a instruction sheet...? I'm sure someone here could point me in the right direction? PM me maybe?

Let me point you in the right direction.

Bruce engineered it, he makes his living by selling it and other things like it. Those of us who lack the knowledge are happy to pay up once in a while for a first class product. It seems like stealing to give it away. Maybe that's why offense was taken. Don't get your panties in a wad, LOL.

If you are too broke to cough up the $20, try begging on the street. It may seem degrading, but it's honest enough. Better than asking the people on this forum who know and respect Bruce to give away his product.



Sheesh.

[vg3000]

Bruce engineered it

Hmmm... Doing a search we find this:

So far this is Bruce's "proprietary" mod....we have a sort of gentlemen's-agreement not to share the mod's details at this time.

Of course, by examining some later non-tweed circuits you might be able to figure it out.

Taken from another amp design??? I was just asking for the values.

If you are too broke to cough up the $20, try begging on the street. It may seem degrading, but it's honest enough. Better than asking the people on this forum who know and respect Bruce to give away his product.

Try begging on the street? Please, grow up Ricky.

Give away "his" product? Have I asked anyone to send me a free caps, and switches? In regards to the mods pricing Bruce is claiming it is mostly due to the hardware. He states that in a post above, I have the hardware already. Why would I want doubles?
If it was a matter of a donation??? No problem that's a totally different situation.
"Hey we spent some time looking at all these Fender and Ampeg schematics to come up with these mods for you. If you think they helped you do you think you can make a donation? Do you need the parts, heck we have those for sale over here too, etc."

Forget I asked...

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

You're offended? Sorry, don't get yer panties in a bunch now, LoL. I might take a look at those kits. I think a fixed bias with neg feedback mod via switch would take care of any flub and make it quite a bit more versatile. Honestly I think it's the speakers people put in these. I've heard no complaints from people using G12H-30's or the like with humbuckers. I don't think they have trouble passing bass like the stock Jensen.

Fixed bias in the 5E3 does help clean it up but it also makes it sound a little more like a brown face Deluxe... or maybe even more like a non reverb BF Princeton but with the bass up pretty high and the treble at around 7-8.
Speakers make a huge difference in the 5E3.
My fav is a Celestion AlNiCo G12 Bulldog... very pricey though so the second choice would be a Weber VST P12B Bluedog AlNiCo, or Eminence Red Fang.
Another couple excellent choices is the Eminence Tonker Lite and Little Texas NEO speakers... they really kill in these amps and don;'t weigh much at all.
Even the reissue C12Q and P12Q sounds better then what many will have you believe. They just take a few hours of use to loosen up and work the harshness out if it bugs you.
I love the G12H30 but it might be a little heavy in these with that thin baffle board and for the best tone in a 5E3 you need a speaker that is a little more lopsided in power bandwidth with some extra top end sparkle. The G12H30 doesn't seem like one of those to me.
Negative feedback can clean the 5E3 a little bit, but NFB can choke the life out of them so you have to be careful and not over do it.
Also, putting NFB in is a little tricky as you would want to do it at the triode ahead of the cathodyne driver. Again check a BF Princeton for a good example.

I took knee jerk reaction offense to you diss'ing my HB mod kits because you jumped to an erroneous conclusion of what the HB mod kits are and then hid behind the "no offense intended" comment. That one bugs me.
Those kind of N.O.I statements are usually stated to deflect some push back from the party they were intended to mildly injure.
Well I have to challenge those kinds of off hand comments and protect my products when needed.
OK. Based on your misunderstanding of what the HB mod kits are, you probably did think the few bucks I charge for those mod kits is outrageous.
They are much more complicated then just a simple drawing and single capacitor. I needed to point that out.
A general mis-informed statement like that, blurted out on the Net with no response from me can have all kinds of silly repercussions later and can serve to devalue or dilute what I do.
I don't over price any of these little $20 to $30 parts kits... sure the total parts values don't add up to the same dollar amount but my time experimenting, tweaking circuits, buying mucho parts, printing envelopes and layout drawings, assembling the kits with packaging, shipping and working with the builders in a point after sale.... is all worth something.
I have been building and tweaking tweed, brown face, black face and silver face amps for many many years and actually have some insight on what little tweaks can be done to make them sound even better, yet still enjoy most of the classic tone.

I have given much of my time and expertise on the Net, (been here on AMPAGE for so many years I can't even remember now).
I've helped countless builders on the phone and even at my shop.
I still enjoy working with novice and intermediate builders but I do have to pay the bills too.
The vacuum tube amp business is what I do, ... well, I still go out an play some gigs whenever I can get paid for it! ha ha.

Anyhow, don't run away all PO'd, stick around... there are lots of people here with great ideas.

[MWJB]

No argument with anything you say here, aren't we saying the same thing? It's the 500pf cap that makes the difference by brightening the bright channel, the tone pot & .0047uf is a hi cut for both channels?

Overdriving the Normal channel brings in more aggressive mids & highs, usually enough for a thick, driven, lead tone (if that's something you might want)...but yes, at anything much less than flat out, it's dull as dishwater. Indeed, for more traditional "Fendery" tones the Bright channel is the tool. To my mind, it's this "dual identity" that makes the 5E3 such a flexible amp.

[k51502]

i've fitted a celestion G12H30 in mine and it sounds fantastic.all the valves are NOS Brimars with the exception of a GE 5AR4.diode clipping on the bright volume pot(excellent for simulating EL34's,give a squarer edge to the sound when you turn the volume all the way up)beefier mains filtering(100uF).caps are .01uF on the volumes and .02uF on the phase inverter.not the slightest bit of flabiness with humbuckers and distortion is able to give my master volume marshall's a run for their money(thanks to diode clipping) lastly metal film reisistors throughout.

[vg3000]

i've fitted a celestion G12H30 in mine and it sounds fantastic.all the valves are NOS Brimars with the exception of a GE 5AR4.diode clipping on the bright volume pot(excellent for simulating EL34's,give a squarer edge to the sound when you turn the volume all the way up)beefier mains filtering(100uF).caps are .01uF on the volumes and .02uF on the phase inverter.not the slightest bit of flabiness with humbuckers and distortion is able to give my master volume marshall's a run for their money(thanks to diode clipping) lastly metal film reisistors throughout.

I just got this one up and running with a G12H30 (Hellatone). With the stock values I'm not getting any flub with humbuckers as described, just great tone like others have stated who've used the speaker. I think I'll pass on the later model Fender design mods for use with humbuckers but I'm going to try out that Ampeg design, I mean the "PaulC mod".
As far as the fixed bias mod, done to Harvard specs (to a degree) it sounds more like a louder Harvard (Steve Cropper, cleans) than a Brown Deluxe. The Brown has a long-tail pair PI. The Harvard and Deluxe a split load. The vol/tone arrangement is a little different, but not by much. The Harvard has one channel as apposed to two with a high mu tube, you can swap out the 12AY7 for a 12AX7 to achieve similar results (I like the 12AY7). They are pretty damn close in layout. Bruce you might be getting some of that Brown Deluxe vibe @ FB from that Brown Deluxe preamp you mod these things to?

[k51502]

i meant to mention a EEC83 in V1 and i've fitted a Fischer type 3 ppimv(works quiet well too),but by God the distortion outta this thing is unbelievable you could play hard rock on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Bruce you might be getting some of that Brown Deluxe vibe @ FB from that Brown Deluxe preamp you mod these things to?

Yes, with a tone volume pot mod I think it does start sounding a little more brown face Deluxe but there are still other differences that make them apart ... coupling cap values, phase inverter, plate voltages, fixed bias vs cathode bias... etc.