lacquering tweed- with what? (in UK)

[Five_E35]

Button polish, try your local hardware store. I know Chuck doesn't like shellac but, depending on the tweed you use, you can get ball-park on a genuine 50's tweed amp (we've done plenty of "side by side" comparisons on this), most of which are rarely the same shade from panel to panel anyway. It's what EVERYONE I know uses.

It's been about a dozen years since I did mine(a RI Bassman), but I do remember thinning the 1st coat of shellac with denatured alcohol and the application process was more like scrubbing it on with a bristle brush to get it to soak into the tweed. I didn't even save the brush for the second coat, which was somewhat thicker.

One other thing I don't like about the current LTD Fenders, which I've never seen on an old one is the finish is much too thin and leaves the tweed rough and porous. Most that I've seen have at least an amount of 'fill' about like a Victoria or are even smoother, but I have no idea what was done to them over the years. I'd think you'd have to spray a whole lot of nitro to get there, and Poly might be better at building up some fill.

I'm about to do another cab for my 5E3 when the weather warms up and I was thinking Shellac followed by a finish coat of Nitro, both by brush. FWIW, I've never waxed mine, but did clean it a couple of times with the low gloss Amour-all Ultimate clean and it came out fine. I've been using less aggressive Meguiars Qwick Interior Detailer lately.

[distorto]

Yeah I agree Shellac is fine. Looks great and is easy to use. Lets not forget that If durability is the number one concern then a person should use Tolex which is what Fender used when they realized that tweed didn't wear so well. Slap it on and let it wear as it will.

[The Captain]

Button polish, try your local hardware store. I know Chuck doesn't like shellac but, depending on the tweed you use, you can get ball-park on a genuine 50's tweed amp (we've done plenty of "side by side" comparisons on this), most of which are rarely the same shade from panel to panel anyway. It's what EVERYONE I know uses.

Hi there MJWB, thanks for the reply: button polish? thats a new one on me..

gawd I had thought this might be simpler, ie a tin of xyz, brush, job done. I just cant be faffed adding ochres, shellacs & 3x coats- all I want is a clear thickish lacquer to brush on (spray- no way as it just gets everywhere/ unpleasant to use if any wind etc).

So again if there's anyone in UK who has any idea what such a tin might be/ be called over here? or if anyone's used something like the ebay tin I guessed at? at the mo my patience is running out with this! but surely it cant be so complicated..

[Five_E35]

I've never tried it on an amp, but maybe Spar Varnish would work? It's a type of varnish usually based on tung oil and has an amber tint to it. It's softer and sands and repairs much easier than indoor polyurethane. It was originally developed for spars on sailing vessels(I believe in England), but is used for cabinets and wood trim on boats. It's not recommended for seats or decks because it never completely hardens. Maybe someone who's tried it or knows more about it can add something.

[Chuck H]

Spar varnish (or "marine" varnish) is an outstanding product for some things. I use it for exterior wood trim and doors that get alot of weather, especially sun. It remains quite flexible compared to other clear finishes and doesn't "blush" when bruised like other finishes. So dents and dings won't show as badly. But... I do think it's a bit soft for an amp finish though I've never tried it. It has a pretty slow dry time. So soaked into fabric it may build too thick and that can cause the surface film to dry before the material underneath "colesces". This can cause wrinkling in the surface film. A test sample should be tried before using it on the project. I do think that after about a year it would be hard enough to protect the amp effectively. It would amber very nicely and it smells terrific IMO. One of my favorite products to work with. The very long open time makes for a glass smooth finish. Even with a brush. So getting it even on tweed and keeping a wet edge would be easier.

Chuck

[The Captain]

Button polish, try your local hardware store. I know Chuck doesn't like shellac but, depending on the tweed you use, you can get ball-park on a genuine 50's tweed amp (we've done plenty of "side by side" comparisons on this), most of which are rarely the same shade from panel to panel anyway. It's what EVERYONE I know uses.

right I think I've had it with this! (MJWB thx for the pm etc). Shellac (whatever that is exactly), polyeurethane, nitrocellulose, Rustins Plastic Coating, button polish.. enough already. I will try a std wood varnish on a test piece and that's it for me with this!

that's the prob with forums: with all the help/ opinions I'm completely lost..

fwiw today I scoured places on an ind estate, testing on tweed offcuts various different lacquer sprays (car body places): all (after an almighty headache in car!) looked absolutely no different to the tough yellowy finish on the tweed as it is originally.

I cant understand why anyone wants anything on the tweed as it is-? is it just for effect? ie a colour thing? if so I'm damned if I'm spending hrs/ headaches/ money to get a tiny different shade to the tweed. bollocks. & big ones at that.

[pgussler]

I have been using spray nitro lacquer from Reranch for quite some time. I have found that the spay goes on quite a bit more evenly than brushing it on. They offer the product in clear or a lightly tinted amber. http://reranch.com/

[The Captain]

yes -i hope- a solution can be found like as simple a varnish as this.

But with all the suggestions here (Im a bit far from Texas me) I am concerned with both..

A) affecting the bond between fabric and pine.. ie any bubbling or loosening of the fine firm adhesion you get with tweed, and
B) any (bad) discolouration or saturation of the tweed.

Both these would ruin a covering: hugely time-consuming and costly to redo, not to mention such gnashing of teeth my gums would explode.

[Chuck H]

right I think I've had it with this! (MJWB thx for the pm etc). Shellac (whatever that is exactly), polyeurethane, nitrocellulose, Rustins Plastic Coating, button polish.. enough already. I will try a std wood varnish on a test piece and that's it for me with this!

And

that's the prob with forums: with all the help/ opinions I'm completely lost..

And

I cant understand why anyone wants anything on the tweed as it is-? is it just for effect? ie a colour thing? if so I'm damned if I'm spending hrs/ headaches/ money to get a tiny different shade to the tweed. bollocks. & big ones at that.

Easy...Close your eyes, take a deep breath and find a happy place.

What you have is the opinions of experts and others with practical experience. What we know now is that shellac, lacquer and polyurethane are all acceptible finishes for tweed that have worked for people on a regular basis and info on how to apply them. Thats good stuff. A little more searching on your part will reveal that shellac, lacquer and polyurethane are all available on your side of the pond. There has also been info on tinting finishes or aging finishes to get an "authentic" look. All good stuff.

Ordinary varnish is the only product indicated in this thread that DOESN'T hav an endorsement.

To come off with "that's the problem with forums" and "bollocks" to the idea of adding a little color after all these good people have at least tried to help is insulting. Adding color is a trick done to maximize the project. That's what we do here. Maximize our amps and projects. That's why you posted here, isn't it? I hope I've simply misunderstood your sense of humor.

If you take the info in this post, do a little research to locate products and make some test samples you can maximize your project too.

Chuck

[MWJB]

In addition to what Chuck says...plain, untreated tweed looks anemic compared to vintage tweed (the first time I did a bassman, I just sat it next to the TV and stared at it from time to time...aaaahhh!). Plain, unsealed tweed absorbs stains, sealing it will reduce this significantly. Some guys like the treatment just on the tweed, some actually prefer to treat the bare pine as well, as they think that this enhances the tone/resonance of the cab (I just do the tweed).

As to what exactly to use? Well, post a question like this on a forum with thousands of contributors and you're naturally going to get a few contradictary responses. If you have a few swatches of tweed, try a couple of approaches (bearing in mind ease & regularity of supply of the chosen product, for consistency) and go with the one you like the look of best, check out some vintage tweed amps too, many are various tints depending on the environments they've endured...there's no one, "right" solution.

Personally...I prefer tolex.

[theunrulychef]

A little off topic, but not too much. Chuck, can you see any problems with using that ammonia trick to age nitro finished guitar pieces (w/ shellac based undercoat)? It wouldn't soften it up or make the paint gummy or anything?

I like threads like this - lots of info with different tips & tricks.

-Jay

[The Captain]

I hope I've simply misunderstood your sense of humor.

If you take the info in this post, do a little research to locate products and make some test samples you can maximize your project too.

Chuck

indeed you have. i have a very droll sense of humour, as is the english way. apologies if it seemed like I was unappreciative of the replies- I am very much so, just frustrated with this thats all.

fwiw household wood varnish IS the best Ive tried among all the tests! still it looks almost identical to the tough yellowey lacquer thats on the tweed in the first place (as with other tests, I had to look hard to even see where I'd applied it).

I still cant understand the idea really: if its just for a slight tint to the (rather nice coloured imo) orig tweed colour then there's little point to me. But if the idea's to add a hard, protective layer to the tweed then I can see the point, but can't see any viable way of adding without hours of work/ layer upon layer for such small benefit..

.. unless there IS a brush-on, one coat, hard protective/ tweed-sealing-type substance. My conclusion tho: there's not, well not in UK anyway.

[MWJB]

It takes me about an hour to do a bassman cab with button polish, 3 consecutive coats on each surface (next coat goes on while last coat is just "tacky"), then some cutting in.

What is the "tough yellowy lacquer" on the tweed you mention? Where did you buy it, what is it called? Raw tweed has nothing on it.

[The Captain]

eh? surely when you see tweed to buy here in UK its yellow coloured on one side, white/ dark brown bare reverse side? Ive buy from two places, exactly the same product: obviously its a factory yellowy tough substance applied.

Ive never seen 'fender tweed' sold as bare white/ dark weave tweed, anywhere.

now Im really confused!

[MWJB]

No, the tweed is usually the same colours on both sides (yellow/green or yellow/brown).

Go to torresamps.com, "grill cloths & coverings", is this your tweed? Or advise as to where you bought yours.