where can i find this wire?

[bradberry00]

So i am looking for some hookup wire that is covered in unbleached cotton with color tracers. does this exist in 18, 20, 22 gauge?

wire that looks like this:


any help would be great!

thanks,
david

[guitarmike2107]

Why?

Cloth covered wire does not belong in modern day amps. Ok that's my opinion

looks like shoe laces! or basketball net chord

EDIT: sorry I know thats not helpful

[Gibsonman63]

I was able to get solid colors recently from Antique Electronic Supply. They do not have a huge selection of wire sizes, but you could definitely get the red wire you have pictured.

As far as "why"?... I found it really nice to work with. You don't have to strip the wire, just cut it to length and push it back a little to solder. It is solid core, so lead dress is easy and stays where you put it. Perfect for restoring a vintage amp.

[bradberry00]

Why?

Cloth covered wire does not belong in modern day amps. Ok that's my opinion

looks like shoe laces! or basketball net chord

EDIT: sorry I know thats not helpful

Im not building a modern day amp.....I am building an 'antiquated' one.

[guitarmike2107]

If your going for true vintage then I cant argue with that. There are loads of guys who still choose to use cloth covered wire

FYI though the design standards in the EU says that untreated cloth covered wire should be treated as having no insulation with regard to the prevention of shock which is why you wont find it in complying production amps.
In the US the design standards are not law… yet.

@Gibsonman, the easy strip or no strip is great, its one of the reasons that I have started using tinned solid core wire and tight fitting PTFE sleeving over it, you attach the wire to the first point, cut to length, slide the sleeving over the wire and cut the length to suit the wire, easily done and stays in place, and no nicking the wire when trying to strip it etc

[overtone]

bradberry00
some pointers for you:

1. I saw that pattern as a slip over cotton braiding on the German E-Bay site last month, but I did not bookmark it. There was 9m left over and the seller said that only plain braid is available usually, he had it made up specially.
2. You can run into all sorts of unknowns with this kind of wire, what rating is it? Is it laquered / bonded to an insulation jacket? etc. Just saying: make sure you know what you need and what you are being offered.
3. Perhaps Radiodaze.com can help you. When I was researching this issue a couple of years back they seemed the most clued-in supplier.
4. Trawl the web for other radio rebuild suppliers, they seem have to reproduce most of their components. A short run may be negotiable.

Those lower four wires in your photo look exactly like the wire I found in a '54 Gibson GA-40 but I never found a supplier for that pattern! There were only two new runs needed in the amp so I used modern wire with a brown cotton cloth covering slipped over, like the audio guys use. This frays at the end so a small ring of brown heat shrink keeps things neat. It is a solid repair that looks tidy and I don't have anything against a well made repair in an old amp.

If I understand your reply above correctly, this wire is for a new build which should look old. For a new build you will want the real thing, messing around with cotton sleeving will ramp up your build time.
Good luck with those shoe laces!

[ThermionicScott]

Whenever i gut an old organ, i harvest as much wire as possible.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

"Why?

Cloth covered wire does not belong in modern day amps. Ok that's my opinion

looks like shoe laces! or basketball net chord

EDIT: sorry I know thats not helpful"

*****************************************************

Yeah, all those many tens and tens of thousands of vintage amps, all made with cloth covered wire, have been killing people all over the world for years now.... NOT.

[guitarmike2107]

Those old amps did shock poeple, but that was mostly because of grounding, there are some american pro builders that still use cloth covered wire. But here on the otherside of the pond we have to work with EU Legislation and thats what it says.

safe , safer , safest, anal

Cloth Insulated Wiring - A Shock and Fire Hazard

[Raybob]

... here on the otherside of the pond we have to work with EU Legislation and thats what it says.

safe , safer , safest, anal

Cloth Insulated Wiring - A Shock and Fire Hazard

I'm not sure I understand. I build amps that comply with ROHC requirements (EU legislation) for international sales, which means all ROHC compliant components, as well as lead free solder. I've searched all through the ROHC documents and have never seen any requirements for not having cloth covered wires used inside amplifiers or any electronic products. Could you be more specific? The link you provided is about home improvements in upgrading house wiring in the United States.

Raybob

[guitarmike2107]

Hi Raybob,

Yes the link was the first google result I got, but if its not good enough for your house why use it in your appliance where it is subject to the same possible breakdown; mould and fungus in hot & humid areas etc

In the EU you have to comply with several directives to sell an amp, not necessary for DIY builds but if your DIY build burns down the local pub how do you prove it was built safe?
Anyway here’s the directives I know about

RoHS. Use of Restricted Substances
Low Voltage Directive (LVD) – Safety Directive
EMC Directive – Electromagnetic Compatibility
WEEE Directive - Recycling

You are meant to comply with all of these, but IMHO the LVD is the most important as it is the product safety guidlines i.e. the one that say your product must not kill or hurt anybody.

The Low Voltage Directive has a harmonised standard EN 60065 for audio appliances. It’s basically a comprehensive design guideline. If you comply with this harmonised standard then the appliance would comply with the Low Voltage Directive.

It covers design files/records, manuals, product markings, Insulation requirements, terminal spacing, required product test in normal and fault modes etc.. mind boggling stuff. I suspect that if your product passed the American UL tests it would probably be CE Complaint, the UL Design standard is UL 60065.

Here is page 8 of EN60065, first sentence in section 8 mentions untreated cloth wire.
http://www.mediafire.com/?b0o4cc5dciq2g64

Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) - Electrical engineering - Enterprise and Industry

I am a bit fuzzy on the EMC directive, some have said that by complying with EN60065 then you’re compliant with the EMC directive. I don’t know?
I know that you can self certify for the EN60065 standard

The Weee Directive just requires that your product has a marking to say that it must be taken to a recycling depot and not thrown in the bin.

You already know about RoHS

You can mail me if you want more input.

Mike

[guitarmike2107]

On another note this is , I think , the reason there are allot more small builders trying to make a business out of amp building in the US.

All the EU directives are meant to help make the market safer and more competitive, but they make it very difficult for the small business to start up and succeed… which in turn makes it less competitive

But this is a whole other rant…

I know a few guys in the UK that build to sell and don’t comply.

[Raybob]

Hi Raybob,

Yes the link was the first google result I got, but if its not good enough for your house why use it in your appliance where it is subject to the same possible breakdown; mould and fungus in hot & humid areas etc

In the EU you have to comply with several directives to sell an amp, not necessary for DIY builds but if your DIY build burns down the local pub how do you prove it was built safe?
Anyway here’s the directives I know about

RoHS. Use of Restricted Substances
Low Voltage Directive (LVD) – Safety Directive
EMC Directive – Electromagnetic Compatibility
WEEE Directive - Recycling

You are meant to comply with all of these, but IMHO the LVD is the most important as it is the product safety guidlines i.e. the one that say your product must not kill or hurt anybody.

The Low Voltage Directive has a harmonised standard EN 60065 for audio appliances. It’s basically a comprehensive design guideline. If you comply with this harmonised standard then the appliance would comply with the Low Voltage Directive.

It covers design files/records, manuals, product markings, Insulation requirements, terminal spacing, required product test in normal and fault modes etc.. mind boggling stuff. I suspect that if your product passed the American UL tests it would probably be CE Complaint, the UL Design standard is UL 60065.

Here is page 8 of EN60065, first sentence in section 8 mentions untreated cloth wire.
http://www.mediafire.com/?b0o4cc5dciq2g64

Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) - Electrical engineering - Enterprise and Industry

I am a bit fuzzy on the EMC directive, some have said that by complying with EN60065 then you’re compliant with the EMC directive. I don’t know?
I know that you can self certify for the EN60065 standard

The Weee Directive just requires that your product has a marking to say that it must be taken to a recycling depot and not thrown in the bin.

You already know about RoHS

You can mail me if you want more input.

Mike

That EN60065 says, "Softening temperature of the insulating material shall be at least 150 degrees C. I'm sure that the insulation on the cloth covered wire that I use will not soften at 150C.

[guitarmike2107]

Raybob, its was 8.1 I was refering to. 1/4 way down the page

[Raybob]

Raybob, its was 8.1 I was refering to. 1/4 way down the page

That speaks of "untreated textile" covering. Modern cloth covered wire is "treated" textile covering.