New to the forum: Ready to build a tweed deluxe from a kit

[d. spree]

I am a new member here, so hello everyone. I am close to being ready to build - selling my 1979 Fender Twin this week and that will raise the cash for a kit.

I've been web researching and have looked at kits online - the Trinity, the Weber, the Mission, and a kit offered by TubeDepot.

I have ruled out the Weber kits - cheaper but I've read a lot of reviews that say the most of the componenets are pretty poor quality. Like the TubeDepot but I want a board that is close to the orginal Leo design.

The Trinity looks like really great quality. I am also really impressed with Mission kits. So its between the two. It comes down to who has the the best instructions and support.

Given that I am handy but have never built an amp I have learned that the quality of the instructions matters a lot. I am fine with the soldering iron and can follow directions really well - but I know NO theory and will need really clear instructions. I have ordered the Guitar Amp Handbook and will read that through first.

So I would appreciate it if folks here can share their experiences, advice and knowledge.

[JHow]

Well, kind of like the "pirate code" in Pirates of the Carribean, most amp building instructions can be really more like a set of guidelines. I think even the best ones are gonna require that you know a good bit on your own. They are usually not so simple as "connect A to B". Of the three you mention, Mission Amp's very own Bruce is a frequent poster on these threads. I have never bought a kit from him, but judging from his replys on these boards, he is extremely knowledgeable and helpful individual. He can be a little bit like the Gandalf character in Lord of the Rings: "Fool of a Took! You've reversed the leads on the output transformer! Why don't you throw yourself in next time!" But his advice is very sound. I'm sure the other kits are great too.

[Wittgenstein]

Why are you selling your 79 Twin?

I built the Triode 5E3 kit which I was very happy with, however it just comes with the usual schematic and layout diagram.

Here is a pdf download of TubeDepot's 5F1 champ instructions with pictures. I know that it is PCB and not a deluxe, but it should give you some ideas. Here is a video showing how to wire the front controls before installing them into the chassis.

[d. spree]

Why are you selling your 79 Twin?

I built the Triode 5E3 kit which I was very happy with, however it just comes with the usual schematic and layout diagram.

Here is a pdf download of TubeDepot's 5F1 champ instructions with pictures. I know that it is PCB and not a deluxe, but it should give you some ideas. Here is a video showing how to wire the front controls before installing them into the chassis.

Thanks - I did check out the TubeDepot instructions which they post for the 5E3 and carefully worked through them (48 pages) - they are pretty much step by step (and do have an "attach A to B type format." Their kits are very good value - $600 all in (cabinet and Jensen speaker) but I preferred the boards and components on the Trinity kits and the Mission kits. The Mission kits don't come with such clear instructions (lots of photos) and Bruce at Mission said that they are relatively easy to figure out. I woprry about my lack of knowledge. The Trinity kits end up pretty expensive - kit is $410 plus shipping, cabinet another $380 (that's hefty) and then the speaker. At this point I may need to go with the Tubedepot as it seems to be the easiest build if not as good as the other kits.

[d. spree]

Well, kind of like the "pirate code" in Pirates of the Carribean, most amp building instructions can be really more like a set of guidelines. I think even the best ones are gonna require that you know a good bit on your own. They are usually not so simple as "connect A to B". Of the three you mention, Mission Amp's very own Bruce is a frequent poster on these threads. I have never bought a kit from him, but judging from his replys on these boards, he is extremely knowledgeable and helpful individual. He can be a little bit like the Gandalf character in Lord of the Rings: "Fool of a Took! You've reversed the leads on the output transformer! Why don't you throw yourself in next time!" But his advice is very sound. I'm sure the other kits are great too.

Thanks for responding - only the TubeDepot kit seems to have detailed step by step instructions - I worry about the cost of a basic mistake (ruined parts). The Trinity kits are probably beyond my budget. I did contact Bruce at Mission and he is as you described. I just worry about my ability to follow schematics

[JHow]

Thanks for responding - only the TubeDepot kit seems to have detailed step by step instructions - I worry about the cost of a basic mistake (ruined parts). The Trinity kits are probably beyond my budget. I did contact Bruce at Mission and he is as you described. I just worry about my ability to follow schematics

I think a person can do well with whichever kit they choose. Re, schematics, they're not so hard. They are just a map of how the components connect (as opposed to how they physically laid out). The only tricky bits for someone starting out (IMO) are:

1) Tube sockets - for which you can always look at the data sheet. Bear in mind the numbering on the data sheet is as if viewed from the bottom, which is how you will be soldering it. There is an "index" for the socket, either the "notch" on the octal or the "gap" on the nine-pin. Numbering runs clockwise from the gap/notch as you look at it from the bottom. Also, many sockets have the pin number molded into them, and if your eyes are good, you can read the numbers. Personally, I always count from the notch.

You can look at data sheets for common tubes here: Frank's electron Tube Data sheets

2) Transformer wiring - OT and PT, there are some common color codes that you frequently encounter. Likely, the instructions will explain this. You can get a sense of how these are done by looking here:

Common hookup info (see power transformer hookups)

3) Polarity of electrolytic capacitors - Often it is marked in the schematic with a small "+", the older symbol for it will have the "flat" for pos. side and "inverted paren" shape for the neg. The device itself will have some sort of indication for "+" or "-" . On axial caps, the plus side lead will come from the insulated side of the cap and the neg lead will come from the "aluminium" side. Most of the e-caps you will encounter will have the negative lead going to common (0 volts) or ground. If your amp has a negative bias supply in the power section, however, you will have one filter cap that will connect with its positive end to common, or zero volts. This can be a source of confusion.

4) Input jack hook-ups - In my early attempts at amps, the switchcraft 12a with the shunt contact was a frequent souce of annoyance and problems. Have a look here at the "input jacks" section:

Common hookup info

One thing I do to help with scratch-building is to make a xerox of the schematic and then use a colored pencil to highlight the connections and trace the wires as I make them and a checkmark as I install parts. The other thing I do is to take a break after hooking everything and come back later and re-check connections, cap polarity, jack wiring, GROUNDs, etc. This is boring, but will help you catch stuff. I also will use this schemo to record all my voltages AC and later DC as I bring the amp up. I keep this copy for later troubleshooting. That way I know what values I had, using my meter. If something has changed, I can spot it qiuckly. Any component values (bypass cap, etc. ) that I may have substituted I also record here. For first-time power up info, go here:

Paul Ruby Amplifiers

[d. spree]

I think a person can do well with whichever kit they choose. Re, schematics, they're not so hard. They are just a map of how the components connect (as opposed to how they physically laid out). The only tricky bits for someone starting out (IMO) are:

1) Tube sockets - for which you can always look at the data sheet. Bear in mind the numbering on the data sheet is as if viewed from the bottom, which is how you will be soldering it. There is an "index" for the socket, either the "notch" on the octal or the "gap" on the nine-pin. Numbering runs clockwise from the gap/notch as you look at it from the bottom. Also, many sockets have the pin number molded into them, and if your eyes are good, you can read the numbers. Personally, I always count from the notch.

You can look at data sheets for common tubes here: Frank's electron Tube Data sheets

2) Transformer wiring - OT and PT, there are some common color codes that you frequently encounter. Likely, the instructions will explain this. You can get a sense of how these are done by looking here:

Common hookup info (see power transformer hookups)

3) Polarity of electrolytic capacitors - Often it is marked in the schematic with a small "+", the older symbol for it will have the "flat" for pos. side and "inverted paren" shape for the neg. The device itself will have some sort of indication for "+" or "-" . On axial caps, the plus side lead will come from the insulated side of the cap and the neg lead will come from the "aluminium" side. Most of the e-caps you will encounter will have the negative lead going to common (0 volts) or ground. If your amp has a negative bias supply in the power section, however, you will have one filter cap that will connect with its positive end to common, or zero volts. This can be a source of confusion.

4) Input jack hook-ups - In my early attempts at amps, the switchcraft 12a with the shunt contact was a frequent souce of annoyance and problems. Have a look here at the "input jacks" section:

Common hookup info

One thing I do to help with scratch-building is to make a xerox of the schematic and then use a colored pencil to highlight the connections and trace the wires as I make them and a checkmark as I install parts. The other thing I do is to take a break after hooking everything and come back later and re-check connections, cap polarity, jack wiring, GROUNDs, etc. This is boring, but will help you catch stuff. I also will use this schemo to record all my voltages AC and later DC as I bring the amp up. I keep this copy for later troubleshooting. That way I know what values I had, using my meter. If something has changed, I can spot it qiuckly. Any component values (bypass cap, etc. ) that I may have substituted I also record here. For first-time power up info, go here:

Paul Ruby Amplifiers

Thanks for this. tonght I will check the info and read it all through. The more I research this the more psyched I am to build - and of course to play through a new Tweed Deluxe! Appreciate your thoughtful response.

Ken

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Probably the biggest slow down I encounter with novice kit builders is the simple aspect of logistics. Such as, where to start so that when you get *here*... you don't have to go back to the beginning and remove what you've already done because it's now in the way!!
A good example of that is, not to install the very easily mountable transformers... that is before you have installed, and then wired up the tube sockets.
Most tweed amp builders will agree that the filament string can be a pain in the butt and you will discover what the term, "sausage fingers" means.
With the transformers mounted, there is nothing quite like trying to shlep the awkwardly balanced chassis around, while installing sockets and then wiring the filament string.
I have had 12-14 year, old budding guitar amp gurus, put the darn thing together over a weekend and be playing the amp late Sunday afternoon... yet I have full grown adults want to shoot themselves and me too! ha ha

[d95err]

He can be a little bit like the Gandalf character in Lord of the Rings: "Fool of a Took! You've reversed the leads on the output transformer! Why don't you throw yourself in next time!"

Now you got me thinking about who on this forum would match the other Lord of the Ring characters...

[Resonator Guy]

I have only built one kit amp, a Mojo 5E3, and that was with almost no experience, just recapping a few vintage amps. The Mojo came with no instructions, just a schem and the standard wiring diagram. With some help from the forum here, I had no real trouble getting it up and running and it is still one of my favourite amps. So don't get hung up on too much detailed instruction. Take your time , think things through and ask a few questions.

[Gibsonman63]

I have had 12-14 year, old budding guitar amp gurus, put the darn thing together over a weekend and be playing the amp late Sunday afternoon... yet I have full grown adults want to shoot themselves and me too! ha ha

Small hands! Some of the best wiring people I have met are women for the same reason.

[d. spree]

Bruce - I love the Mission amps - really stylish and aesthetically beautiful circuit boards etc, like the original Leo model, and great quality components. I have been researching for about 6 weeks and I have learned that you have a well earned reputation for being super helpful and available (I have read about you on other forums, including the gretsch and fender forums where I am a member). I worry about working from schematics and photos as this will be a totally first time build. It maybe unfair to ask, but I worry that I am being too dramatic about the challenges I will face building a Mission 5E3. What has been your experience with first time and very inexperienced builders and the Mission kits?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Honestly, if I know the builder is really a total novice and has no real world experience at all... I think a few practice runs with some junk parts are in order.
However, when I know the builder is really trying and just needs help, not a free education, then there is no drama.
I just make myself available to talk things out and give advice over the phone and in emails.
Ya know, I had to start somewhere too.....and had lots of help. I built my first tube kit when I was about 12-13 years old... and yes, I had problems that another old ham radio guy helped me sort out in a couple hours.
I've done over 1,500 tweed amps kits and builds since the mid-late 90's and so far, I can only think of maybe, a dozen or so builders, that after numerous phone calls and emails, simply gave up and sent the chassis kit back to me to finish it or fix it for them.
Amazingly, most were all very close to having it right but they just made one or two simple mistakes somewhere that, with their limited experience, made it nearly impossible to see or to relate it to me.
But, having it in my hands usually made it easy for me to fix.
And, I have had new amp builders do such an incredible great job, that I'd hire them to build amps for me!!
Yes, I have had a couple gronks... (some of them from other vendor's kits too. I try to make no distinction when trying to help a novice builder out) ...
problems where I was forced to unsolder the controls and sockets, then strip the eyelet board out and see what they messed up on the backside... (which in a couple
cases, would not have happened if they had slowed down and paid more attention to the supplied photos and art work).. ha ha.
Any how, the basic circuit is not that hard to wire right if you just stay awake and
follow the most simplistic layouts from any kit vendor you choose.
And, there are a bunch of builders here with plenty of experience to help out if you get snagged.

As I mentioned, I think the raw logistics of where to start and what is the last thing to do before firing it up, is the real stick in the mud for most novice builders. So for those builders, I ask them to call me before starting for some pep talk and let me help them get started... then they can report back as they progress or run into questions.... etc.
The whole idea is to come to successful conclusion and not get so frustrated that you loose interest in finishing it. This is a really fun hobby and after a couple-three builds, you'll laugh at your hesitation.
Plus when done, and done right, these little 10w-12w amps are a blast.

[d. spree]

Just to update the thread - and thanks to everyone who responded. Bruce has lived up to his reputation as a "saint." I tokk delivery of the TubeDepot kit - cabinet is on back order so I am working on the board and chassis, also I ordered a weber blue dog speaker. So far I have wired in the resistors and tonight should complete the baord and start on the rest of the wiring. It is very easy as the directions are very detailed and the board is very clearly marked, nevertheless I am triple checking everything. The components are generally good quality - Carling and Switchcraft etc and Mojo transformers etc. That said I am already itching for a Mission kit because at the end of the day I want something that is really true to the original and not a printed circuit - and though noone but me will see it I love the Mission board and the true handwiring. So my goal is get this finished - hopefully in the next couple of days and then when the cabinet comes finish and test the thing. My soldering skills are a little rusty but this is great practice and I am already more confident about working from much more minimal instructions. Then I plan to order a Mission kit (chassis and parts) and build the "real thing" - hopefully will build in July.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Save your money... when fat again, from this build move right to a Princeton Reverb to Deluxe Reverb amp. Then you'll have three of the best bang for the buck amps out there!!