Differences in late 50's PP 6V6 Fenders effect on trem, sag, and distortion quality?

[Sleepthieves]

Ive been looking at some of the late 50's fenders for my next build. Something like a Tremolux 5e9a/5g9, Vibrolux 5e11/5f11, Deluxe 6g3, even the Princeton 6g2. Besides some subtle variations all these amps are of the theme 2 6V6 for 10-18 watts and have the tremolo circuit of various designs. They also vary in the way they do rectification. About half of those circuit mentioned have both a rectifier tube and a solid state rectifier. I'm concerned about what effect the solid state rectification has on the sag of these amps. I'm not completely sure but I think I like sag in amps, that is the only reason I'm concerned at all.

Is there there a best tremolo circuit out of all these amps? I noticed some trem circuits get a whole tube and some get just a half tube and that the trem circuit is in different spots in different amps. The Princeton has it right after the tone stack and the Vibrolux has it before, does that affect the tremolo and/or the amount of distortion in the amp?

Also the Tremolux gets about 18 watts out of 2 6V6's vs. the Vibrolux's 10 Watts, how much effect does that have on distortion and clean headroom?

One might be tempted to ask me what is the feature I want most as I'm sure there are tradeoffs in each of these amps but at this point its a reconnaissance mission, my mind isn't made up yet. I'm sure each of these amps sounds pretty cool in its own right but I'm only gonna build one so I'm trying to sort out nuances. If anyone has had the pleasure of playing one or many of these amps I would appreciate opinions on the best sounding one.

[tubeswell]

I love the 5G9 trem. Its hypno-tastic. Maybe I'm biased (or hypnotised).

[Tom Phillips]

I don't know where you got your output power figures but;
1) Most of those amps will put out more like 12 to 14 Watts before they start to clip
2) The actual reading will vary depending on the person doing the measurement
3) A few Watts more or less is pretty insignificant so don't let that affect your choice

The solid state rectifier you reference is in the bias circuit in those designs and it will not affect sag to any significant degree. In the 50's it was a selenium device. Today you will use a silicon diode and the divider resistor values will be selected to give the bias point you want based on the other final operating points. (Affected by modern line voltage and the PT you end up using)

Most people like the tone and touch sensitivity of the tweed Deluxe best out of the designs you mentioned.

Regards,
Tom

[greekie]

The Gibson GA19RVT and the Dr. Z Z28 are both terrific amps, if you want to try something a little different.

[cminor9]

Based on clips I have heard from tubeswell, I say 5g9. It's on my list of amps to build. But the 5e9 is somewhat similar to a 5e3, which is one of the best guitar amps in the world.

I built a 6g3 and ended up hating it for what it's worth. Others here have built them and loved them. Maybe mine was just bunky.

I feel your pain. It's not like you can walk into a GC and play and old tweed.

[Sleepthieves]

Got it from the Fender Amp Field Guide before it died

I don't know where you got your output power figures but;
1) Most of those amps will put out more like 12 to 14 Watts before they start to clip
2) The actual reading will vary depending on the fines of the person dong the measurement
3) A few Watts more or less is pretty insignificant so don't let that affect your choice

The solid state rectifier you reference is in the bias circuit in those designs and it will not affect sag to any significant degree. In the 50's it was a selenium device. Today you will use a silicon diode and the divider resistor values will be selected to give the bias point you want based on the other final operating points. (Affected by modern line voltage and the PT you end up using)

Most people like the tone and touch sensitivity of the tweed Deluxe best out of the designs you mentioned.

Regards,
Tom

Ive never had the pleasure to actually measure any of those amps vintage or clone. My info was from the fender amp field guide which I assume just took the generic spec sheet data for their numbers. I was talking about total output watts. I would imagine circuit differences probably have more of an effect in how clean/dirty these amps are and at which volumes more so then their corresponding watts but my understanding of those kind of advanced distortion concepts is nearly nill. I do really appreciate your answer on the selenium rectifier placement not having an effect on the sag of these amps. Now my choice is even harder however.

FFG numbers are as follows:
5e9a - 18 watts
5g9 - 18 watts
6g3 - not listed but 5e3 was 15 watts
6g2 - 12 watts
5e11 - 10 watts
5f11 - 10 watts

[cminor9]

I put up a site with all the info from the ffg and more. Http://ampedia.redbeartrading.com. Just FYI, sleepthieves.

[Sleepthieves]

Nice! Yeah Wittgenstein and I have copies of Schematic Heaven so when it takes a dive for the last time we can build a site with all their schematics and post-1998 internet styling. That site must have gone down 5 times now at least. A few times it was down for awhile. FFG is still alive its just not as usable as it used to be and the name of it changed. AmpWares gotta dig but its got all the same info. I'm glad to see you've got a backup though.