Difference between 5E9A and 5F11 vibrato circuits

[tubeswell]

I am planning to build a 5E3, but I noticed that there were a couple of variants that add a bit of extra functionality (without having to get a choke)

In keeping with the tweed theme that I am looking at building, the 5F11 (Vibrolux) is more similar to the 5E3, so I'm guessing the tone is more similar, except you lose the functionality of two parallel voltage-amplifier stages, because you sacrifice one half of a 12AX7 for the vibrato circuit (which only uses only one-half of a 12AX7), and has only one voltage amplifier stage (with three inputs - what are all these for?) then a driver stage and an inverter stage before the output stage. The depth control goes into the output tube grids.

The 5E9A (Tremolux) keeps the two parallel voltage amplifer stages that are in the 5E3, but doesn't appear to have any driver stage before the PI (what difference does this make?), and the PI uses both triodes (somebody tell me what the nickname for that setup is?). The vibrato circuit uses two 12AX7 stages and seems to be more in the output amp section with the input grids of both triodes coming after the PI with the vibrato tubes plates feeding into the screens of the output tubes. The depth control is hooked up to the cathode(s) of the PI.

So (in contemplating which one to build) my questions (for anyone who would care to venture an opinion on this) are:

1 What are the key effects/qualities of these two different vibrato circuits (i.e. between having one 'working in' the pre-amp and one 'working in' the power amp)?

2 In only running one 12AX7 triode for the vibrato in the 5F11, is there something "cheaper-sounding" about the quality of the vibrato?

3 In sacrificing the driver stage in the 5E9A, how much tonal difference is there (from the 5E3) when the vibrato is not in use?

Link to 5F11 schematic

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/schem/vi...5f11_schem.gif

Link to 5E9A schematic

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/schem/tr...e9-a_schem.gif

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

The 5E3 and 5F11 use something like a cathodyne driver phase inverter, which has no gain, while the Tremolux uses a phase inverter that is loosely called a paraphase driver, which does have gain.
The very low loss tone controls in these amps means there is less need for further amplification.
The 5E3 and 5F11 needs two gain stages and so does the Tremolux, but it's second gain stage is the actual phase inverter.

The 5F11 is a fixed bias amp and has it's vibrato circuit altering the actual bias voltage level of the power tubes (hi to lo, lo to hi) this turns the power tube on harder or softer.
The Tremolux's vibrato circuit is altering the smaller, cathode bias voltage (and gain) of the actual triodes at the phase inverter driver's (which if you remember, does have gain) ...
common cathodes.... .
The Tremolux also takes voltage from the screen supply of the power tubes and might be altering the power tube's screen voltage a little... I have not checked that though.

The 5F11 uses the smallest footprint of all the power transformers but still makes around 10-12 watts... unfortunately a tiny 10" speaker.
The 5E3 uses a little bigger footprint PT and only makes around 10-12 watts too but into a same size cabinet with a 12" speaker.
The Tremolux, ...for some reason, seems like it uses the same transformers as the 5E3 but makes a little more audible power, a bigger cabinet and the same size 12" speaker as the 5E3.

The 5E3 Deluxe is the best, simple amp, bang for the buck amp out there.
The Vibrolux is a Great amp, especially if you use a 5E3 transformer set and with a 12" speaker.
However, the Tremolux with it's larger cabinet and 12" speaker is king if you use 5E3 trannys and drop the cathode biasing opting for a fixed bias set of 6V6 power tubes.