Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mesa Pulse 600 Pwr Xstr Replacement procedure

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mesa Pulse 600 Pwr Xstr Replacement procedure

    I finally have this amp pulled apart, and have removed all of the original BUZ901P N-Ch MosFET's and BUZ906P P-Ch MosFET's from the interesting dual Aluminum Extrusion, and with assistance from Jon Snell in finding suitable replacements for those obsolete parts, I'm now in the messy part of the operation. Putting the new MosFET's (Exicon ECX10N20 N-Ch & ECX10P20 P-Ch MosFETs) into place, and about to attempt getting discrete greased mica insulators between the TO-247 Parts and the heat sink.

    What I found when I pulled this messy thing apart was a single long Hi Temp Mylar insulator strip with grease on the device side, and NO Thermal Compound on the heat sink side. I'm now guessing why they didn't bother greasing that side up, nor went to use discrete insulators, greased or not. The single PCB for the output stage runs down this long narrow extrusion, with the devices soldered in at the base of the PCB where the device terminals change from solder terminal width to the base width that go into the plastic body. Getting an insulator between the pwr devices and heat sink.....GOOD LUCK!! Great mechanical design. YOU GUYS ARE ALL FIRED!!

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Power Amp Heat Sink PCB-2.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	371.5 KB
ID:	1004307 Click image for larger version

Name:	Power Amp Heat Sink PCB-3.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	400.4 KB
ID:	1004309 Click image for larger version

Name:	Power Amp Heat Sink PCB-5.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	463.3 KB
ID:	1004311

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Insulator strips.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	368.9 KB
ID:	1004313 Click image for larger version

Name:	Power Amp Heat Sink PCB-4.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	429.4 KB
ID:	1004315

    There was a punch-thru burn mark at the one end of the lower insulator, which was probably first, and then it took out four of those parts on that side and two of the parts on the opposite side.

    In the mechanics of this assembly, if you solder the parts straight into the PCB, where they're seated all the way to where the device terminals taper down to the nominal terminal width from the base of each lead, there's no flexibility of the leads between the body of the parts with respect to the middle of the heat sink extrusion. Not sure why they didn't use something like Burgquist K6 or K10 greaseless insulator strips there. But there was no grease on the back side of these mylar strips. And with the parts soldered in straight, it forces the bodies of the MosFET's to stretch away from the leads going into the parts and then get torqued down with the screw-head and keps nuts on the other side of the extrusion. Not a lot of forced offset by the mounting screws/nuts, but more than I'd care to stress the power device package with under long term heating.

    I pre-bent the new leads using a special Erem lead bending tool, which has 1" wide blades that close flat, so you can grip all three leads of the TO-247 part about a tenth of an inch below the body, bend it slightly forward, then at the transition to the narrow terminals, bend them back so to give a slight offset of the body so they mate up with the sides of the extrusion and NOT force the terminals to bend by the holding force of the mounting screws.

    But still, I have to flex them back towards the middle to slip in the greased mica washers, then back upright again, and poke my guide tool thru the extrusion and center the washers to be aligned with the body of the devices. A real PITA to have to deal with, but hopefully completing the thermal path between the power devices and heat sink thru the greased insulator, it will be better than what I found.

    Meanwhile sufficient cursing while being assaulted by the white greased extrusion during all of the procedure is mandatory to get it done! There's a top extrusion that screws down onto the two side extrusions, which is what all that grease is for. It's really there to get all over your hands and arms during this procedure!

    More images to follow when I'm thru. And hopefully all will work afterwards.
    Attached Files
    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

  • #2
    Ouch!!!
    Juan Manuel Fahey

    Comment


    • #3
      That design is sociopathic! Surely it would have made sense to use to seperate extrusions that bolt together, I find it difficult to believe the extra cost wouldn't have been offset by reduced labour.
      Even the choice of phillips head fasteners, I probably would have replaced them with almost anything else - hex head, allen, torx?

      Comment


      • #4
        Not a problem in my workshop, I use these;
        Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-09-13 at 12.43.37.png
Views:	95
Size:	13.2 KB
ID:	1004334 Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-09-13 at 12.42.11.png
Views:	94
Size:	78.7 KB
ID:	1004335 Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-09-13 at 12.43.54.png
Views:	95
Size:	150.2 KB
ID:	1004336
        Support for Fender, Laney, Marshall, Mesa, VOX and many more. https://jonsnell.co.uk
        If you can't fix it, I probably can.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've got the same type tools Jon, but they're still a pain with their 90° engagement points and cam-out (for the Phillips - Pozidriv less so, but will still cam-out), which none of the other drive types I listed suffer from.

          Comment


          • #6
            That's a crazy tight space design!

            I've used one of these reversible/ratcheting types for the last 30+ years.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	38.7 KB ID:	1004341

            https://www.grainger.com/product/3ZH...E&gclsrc=aw.ds​​

            I also have a set of fixed philips and flats
            Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	177.0 KB ID:	1004342
            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, I borrowed a ratchet screwdriver like above when I repaired one.
              Still a royal PIA

              Comment


              • #8
                I got the impression that the transistor screws had removable nuts on the backside of heatsink? If that is correct, you would only have to hold the screw in place while tightening the nut.
                Still a pain, but I can't imagine anyone designing that with the screw thread right in the heatsink.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	fetch?id=1004314.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	429.1 KB
ID:	1004350
                Attached Files
                Originally posted by Enzo
                I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                Comment


                • #9
                  The heat sink xstr mtg holes are thru-holes, using #6-32. I also have right angle ratchet-drive as shown above as well as the manual style Jon displayed. The screw does fit tight enough that just threading on and tightening the Keps Nut tightens up just fine. I would have screamed if I had found the mounting holes tapped. I fully agree with Greg on their stupid concept of the single channel extrusion and the difficulty that presents to assembling these. I did get one side fitted with greased TO-247 Mica before I left and will get photos of that process one has to go thru to install them. I can't help but think this packaging job was given to a new graduate student who had smarts but no experience in the real world on what such designs create in the manufacturing plant. Surprised Mesa let it go thru that way. I don't know if this is still in production. Looks nice when all assembled. Even the top cover, if there's any error in folding the cover, and the chassis, the screw holes don't align.

                  More to come as I crawl towards getting it where I can begin powering up.
                  Last edited by nevetslab; 09-13-2024, 10:20 PM.
                  Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK, I now have the greased mica insulators in place. I've stopped to take photos of the unit and process them and add these notes prior to setting up to power up the amp and verify I have a working power amp again.

                    First, I had to slightly tweak the lead pattern to move the body of the MosFET to mate with the heat sink rather than force it against them as was done at the factory:

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Lead Forming Tool-1.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	389.8 KB
ID:	1004370 Click image for larger version

Name:	Lead Forming-1.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	418.8 KB
ID:	1004372 Click image for larger version

Name:	Lead Forming-2.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	307.0 KB
ID:	1004374

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Lead Forming-3.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	283.0 KB
ID:	1004376 Click image for larger version

Name:	Lead Forming-4.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	287.7 KB
ID:	1004378

                    I soldered these slightly offset MosFET's into the PCB, trimmed the leads and verified I had a good fit. The Erem 508 wide-jaw lead bending tool I picked up used years ago on ebay, and has been a great tool for straightening IC leads as well as tasks such as this.

                    Now with the parts soldered into place, I first mounted the devices to the walls in preparation for inserting greased TO-247 Mica insulators. I cut and shaped the blunt end of a long Q-Tip into a spatula to apply the grease to both side of the insulator, as well as to run thru the screw hole in the heat sink to register the insulator into place.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Q-tip spatula-2.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	464.2 KB
ID:	1004380 Click image for larger version

Name:	Inserting Greased Mica-1.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	282.0 KB
ID:	1004382 Click image for larger version

Name:	Inserting Greased Mica-2.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	329.7 KB
ID:	1004384

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Inserting Greased Mica-3.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	317.4 KB
ID:	1004386 Click image for larger version

Name:	Inserting Greased Mica-4.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	349.9 KB
ID:	1004388 Click image for larger version

Name:	Inserting Greased Mica-5.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	314.1 KB
ID:	1004390

                    Stopping briefly to show the overall Mesa Amp, as I've been focused on this rebuilding of the failed heat sink assembly and figuring out how to improve on the installation and not stress the parts once I've verified I have a working output stage again.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover in place-2.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	446.0 KB
ID:	1004392 Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover removed-1.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	476.2 KB
ID:	1004394 Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover removed-2.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	443.7 KB
ID:	1004396

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover removed-3.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	485.5 KB
ID:	1004398 Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover removed-4.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	521.4 KB
ID:	1004400 Click image for larger version

Name:	Mesa Pulse 600 cover removed-5.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	2.76 MB
ID:	1004402

                    Now onward with seeing if all this effort has paid off, or if there's still more to chase down in the failure.
                    Attached Files
                    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I found the 1N4739 9.1V 1W Zeners that are bridged across the gate drive bus (opposing polarity and tied to the output buss) living on the power supply PCB to the right of the FAN. D7 zener is shorted, so now gotta extract that part and order more, having failed to check those a couple months ago, as well as order more 12A Mains Fuses that I forgot to do as well.

                      mesaboogie-m-pulse-360-600-schematics.pdf
                      Last edited by nevetslab; 09-14-2024, 08:15 PM.
                      Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My mistake. What I thought were the 9.1V zeners on the power supply PCB were the rectifier diodes in the power supply circuit for the Bipolar 15V supply and +12V Filament supply. The two pair of back-to-back zeners that go between the gate busses and the output rails are labeled D25, D26, D27 and D28 on the PCB, and NOT INSTALLED!

                        NOW WHY wouldn't these diodes be installed? I see them used on the Ashdown AMB 500, ABM 900, on all of the Ampeg SVT3-Pro thru SVT6-Pro amps. And, I quite often have to replace one or more of these diodes in that gate circuit when I have one or more MosFET's short out in the output stage of those amps.

                        Should I order them and install them into the empty holes on the output stage PCB?​
                        Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, install them, unless you like playing Russian roulette.

                          Just thinking aloud: those protective Zeners work as a crude short circuit protection.
                          Look at MosFet datasheets and youŽll see that to pass *important* current, they need a significant forward gate voltage.
                          No high gate voltage? No high current.

                          But that may have limited maximum power out, so some Genius removed (or not installed) them to squeeze the last extra Watt.

                          I suggest you place them in the board but use a slightly higher value, say 12V instead of 9.1V

                          Anything less than 15V will protect those gates.

                          Not perfect but still beats not using them at all
                          Juan Manuel Fahey

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            D5 D6 D7 D8 is not the same?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                              Yes, install them, unless you like playing Russian roulette.

                              Just thinking aloud: those protective Zeners work as a crude short circuit protection.
                              Look at MosFet datasheets and youŽll see that to pass *important* current, they need a significant forward gate voltage.
                              No high gate voltage? No high current.

                              But that may have limited maximum power out, so some Genius removed (or not installed) them to squeeze the last extra Watt.

                              I suggest you place them in the board but use a slightly higher value, say 12V instead of 9.1V

                              Anything less than 15V will protect those gates.

                              Not perfect but still beats not using them at all
                              I sucked out the solder from those four diode positions on the power PCB, and earlier ordered some of the 9.1V zeners. I do have 10V zeners on hand, though no 12V/1W parts. It's too late to revise the order, it being Saturday, though I could try that first thing Monday morning and add them then, assuming they'll oblige me and not turn around and do it on a separate order hitting me with all the added expense. Thanks Juan
                              Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X