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Buick (I mean) Randall Century 170 II LOW output and no drive.

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  • Buick (I mean) Randall Century 170 II LOW output and no drive.

    Hello all.
    I try my best to stick with tubes.. but I also try to help the local solid state guys out when I can (this is not one of those times so far! Haha)

    Apparently these amps are highly sought after these days and can go for a good amount of money. So figured it was worth looking at.

    Do the usual basic checks..
    It appears to have an issue with the preamp.
    (very low output, no overdrive. Sounds clean n both channels, and very low volume. )

    And plugging directly into the return isn’t as loud as it should be either. But one thing at a time!

    I swapped the 4558 IC’s as they’re socketed and was a quick swap to see if one had failed. No change.

    I changed the two 3.3 uf caps as they had very high ESR. No change. The rest are what appear to be factory Nichicon. And all testing ok thus far.

    I reflowed any suspect solder joints.

    I’ve tried tracing the signal with my scope. Can’t seem to make much headway.

    The signal comes in from the input jack. And then it is immediately pulled down… which seems odd. Unless it’s designed to be lowered for an amplifying stage.

    And then we get back to my lack of understanding solid state devices still. And why I try to steer clear. But even newer tube amps use solid state devices.. so I’m always trying to learn more. At least to be able to diag basics when I run into them.

    Is there a way of explaining transistors and the IC’s
    like gain stages of tubes? Like grid to plate?
    stuff I could easily look for on any transistor or IC?
    Certain common voltages to look for etc?
    I have trouble with understanding how they turn on and off with certain voltages still. And what certain things they need, to look for, for them to work properly.

    Always appreciate any and all help! I’ve learned so much from the very experienced techs on this forum.

    This one.. which looks seemingly very simple.. has me lost in the weeds currently. I don’t even know what to look for or test next at this point.

    Here’s a couple pics and a schematic. I need to work on something else for a bit to clear my head of this one! Haha

    Thanks in advance!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Are supply voltages good?
    Where exactly is the signal pulled down?
    All transistors in the preamp are junction Fets (read up on those), two used as switches, the rest for gain stages.
    - Own Opinions Only -

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
      Are supply voltages good?
      Where exactly is the signal pulled down?
      All transistors in the preamp are junction Fets (read up on those), two used as switches, the rest for gain stages.
      Hi Helmholtz! Hope you’re doing good!

      Signal is pulled down right after the first .01 cap going into the first Jfet.

      Supply voltages seem good. (At least main ones.. comes into that board at -29v and 29v ) On the double switch. The TL604 IC on pin 5 is about -11.7v. Pin 8 is only about 7.3-8.9 depending on ch selected. Channels seem to switch, leds change.

      Im really not sure what voltages to look for on the 4558s. Etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you read it?
        https://music-electronics-forum.com/...k-to-power-amp

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by x-pro View Post
          Yes. But that one has a different issue with the clean signal bleeding. And I didn’t find anything useful for the issues with this one.

          Comment


          • #6
            4558
            Pin 8 is “+12V”, pin 4 is “-12V”, pins 1 and 7 are “0V”. All voltages are relative to the Common.​

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Indyryder02 View Post
              Pin 8 is only about 7.3-8.9
              This is the power pin of the chip. It should be +12V

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                4558
                Pin 8 is “+12V”, pin 4 is “-12V”, pins 1 and 7 are “0V”. All voltages are relative to the Common.​
                Is this always the case? In other words. 4558’s should always have 12v supplied to 8 and 4? And does this go for all IC’s?

                currently.
                I have -9 and about 8.6 on both of the 4558’s
                So not 12. Not sure if that’s enough to affect its operation?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Could be +/-9V. Depends on stabilizers D7, D8 in the power supply.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                    Could be +/-9V. Depends on stabilizers D7, D8 in the power supply.
                    ok. So that’s not necessarily an issue looks like.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      +24D on D9 and pin D of Q2 is available ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Indyryder02 View Post
                        Signal is pulled down right after the first .01 cap going into the first Jfet.
                        How much difference: weakly, strongly?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                          +24D on D9 and pin D of Q2 is available ?
                          are you referring to the D6 in this schematic with added notation? The schematic I posted doesn’t show any notation on what components are what. (Which is also not helping! Haha)

                          I do have 24v at that junction it seems.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by Indyryder02; 09-20-2024, 04:56 PM. Reason: Added schem with notes

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by x-pro View Post

                            How much difference: weakly, strongly?
                            Injecting input with about 105mv of 1k signal.
                            drops to about 10mv of signal after first .01 seems it’s loading the signal down right off the bat. But perhaps that’s intentional. I’m more familiar with the input hitting the first grid of a tube and being amplified. Also.. this one doesn’t have any 68k resistors from the inputs.. like the schematic with notations has.. this appears to go straight from jack to the board and that first .01
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Indyryder02; 09-20-2024, 05:00 PM. Reason: Added pic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Indyryder02 View Post

                              are you referring to the D6 s.
                              Yeah, I'm sorry.
                              What is the voltage at S Q1 ?
                              Last edited by x-pro; 09-20-2024, 05:23 PM.

                              Comment

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