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Possible bad output transformer in 5150 combo

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  • Possible bad output transformer in 5150 combo

    This is is a continued thread from the Peavey Forum site:

    http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.p...st=0&sk=t&sd=a


    First Post:

    Hey everyone,
    New to this forum an I have been in a technical funk lately. I recently bought a non-functional 5150 combo for $200. The biggest reason for this risk was that when I opened up the amp to look at it, everything looked pristine. The previous owner told me that it crapped out in the middle of playing at a medium volume. He changed all the tubes to Groove Tubes with 6l6b's in the power section. I noticed the fuse was blown and there was NO grounding prong on the plug when I acquired it.

    The first thing I did when I got home was go through a pack of fuses to see what the amp did whenever I did what. I noticed that when the power switch was turned on, a medium-low frequency hum would come from the speakers, the power LED and channel LED would illuminate, and the fuse would blow after about five seconds of this. I tried to activate the standby switch after a couple of fuses to see if that would respond and the LED did NOT light up. I went to GC at picked some GT6L6-GE's to eliminate the variable of power tube failure, but the same result of hum followed by blown fuse. None of the tubes light up, so I'm not sure if the heaters are functioning, or the transformer barely has the time or power to warm them up before the fuse blows.

    To further clarify the situation, I'm talking about the main power fuse as the 1A's and 2A's on the circuit board are good. Upon visual inspection, the circuit board has no singeing or discoloration on any of the components, but the output transformer has some scraping on the sealant on the bottom which MAY be considered blistering, but more like an external temperature result from bad weather and not a massive fluctuation internally as the rest of the tranny doesn't have this.

    I've read about filter caps and screen resistors and flyback diodes, but I want some GOOD Intel before I start taking the knobs and circuit board off the chassis.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Last Post:
    I just came back from Beamish Electronics in Cleveland and I am very unhappy with their service. More about why I'm pissed later. I initially called to see if they had any output transformers and they said they don't sell anything retail, just in the case they are doing the repair. The guy on the phone asked me why I needed an OT and I told him the results of my troubleshooting. He said an OT was unlikely and that he could get it back to me in five days. I entertained this idea and headed there after work.

    The first thing they did was check in the amp and give me a claim ticket. I asked if they wanted to know what was wrong with it and they said the tech will just throw it on the table and fix it. I was suspicious of this since he might end up fixing something that is not essential to its operation. I told the guy at the desk to have the tech call me before he started work on the amp and he said that was not possible. I asked how difficult it is to shoot me a call before commencing what could be a repair well over $100. He said the tech likes to just fix the gear and move on. I told him that I was uncomfortable handing him a "blank check" and a phone call before the repair was complete is more than fair. He said that if I was concerned about spending more than $80 then I should not have them do the service. I congratulated the guy on talking me out of the repair. He doubled back and did what he could to work with me and I considered staying until the issue of power tubes came up. He said it was policy NOT to use customer purchased tubes and that they only use Svetlana 5881 WXT's since they are "the best in the market." I told him I didn't want to pay for a rebiasing (since the 5881's require a different voltage than the spec 6L6GC's Peavey uses) and the tubes I was providing were new and had the same specs as stock tubes. He agreed to use my tubes but when the issue of making the call before work was done arose again, there was no budging. I asked to UNCHECK my gear from the system and to speak to the owner, who happened to be the tech. He claimed they don't do diagnostics and that when you bring in a piece of gear, it comes back fixed. He looked at the amp as it sat on the floor and gave me a quick quote of $60. I told him he didn't even know what was wrong with it and he said he's worked on those a ton of times. I brought up the issue of the phone call and he said, "I have to go" and walked out the door without even answering me. I looked at the staff and said in the most professional manner, "I've never been so bummed about customer service like this before," and left.

    Going back to the output transformer; what should my test results be from jack to jack? Primary to secondary common were tested open, but I don't know what I should be looking at. I also could use advice about another repairman in the Cleveland area.

  • #2
    You mentioned(on the other forum) that you unplugged the OT from the power tube board and the main fuse still blew correct? If so this may be very pertinent info. Bob
    "Reality is an illusion albeit a very persistant one " Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Negative. Upon disconnecting the primary plug from the board, the fuse remained intact. I instantly thought the OT was bad, but the Peavy tech said that there are still some paths looped back through the simple connectivity of the primary to the board. Yes, confusing. The common primary tested open to the common secondary in the OT. That's the only test I know of for the OT and that tests good.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you really need a output transformer, why not get one from Peavey? Their prices are reasonable, their transformers are sturdy, and it will drop right in place. You won;t have to figure out how to mount it.

        You mentioned the flyback diodes are good, and 1400 one way and 700 the other way. I don;t know what that means - 1400 and 700. VOlts? Ohms?

        With the output transformer primary wires disconnected, it no longer blows fuses, is that correct? That means either the transformer is shot or there is a problem on the tube socket board. I would unsolder one end of each flyback diode and lift it from the circuit. Then reconnect the output transformer wires and see if the fuse holds. FLybacks can test OK on a meter but still fail when 500v is across them. Your meter probably doesn;t apply 500v. SO we want to check by lifting them.

        We could have an arcing tube socket. We could have an arcing transformer winding - a meter cannot detect that.

        I would, after verifying the flybacks as above described, connect the center tap of the transformer ONLY - the red wire I believe - and see if fuses hold. If fuses hold that way, ther is no internal arc in that transformer. At that point I would connect the blue wire and retest, then the brown.

        We are systematically moving along the circuit checking each part for involvement.
        Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

        Comment


        • #5
          The diode values were with the diode function of the multi-meter whis is in Ohms, I would think. Peavey wants 98.99 for a for an OT before shipping. What would an arc path look like on a tube socket and would this lead to a fuse blowout with the PT's removed? Wouldn't this still trip a fuse with the primary disconnected since the path goes from PT to OT Primary?

          Comment


          • #6
            Fenian, let me tell you something about the repair business. I know you care about your equipment and don;t want to get ripped off, but from the repair shop poiont of view this looks a bit different. I of course don;t speak for the particular shop you encountered.

            I just this evening had a fellow in my shop dropping off an amp - the complaint is that is randomly switches channels by itself, but that not all the functions change at the same time, and things like the reverb coming and going. To me this completely describes my task: sort out the switching circuit. But the fellow wanted to be helpful. He started decsribing what kind of songs he was playing. He brought in his guitar and wanted to play it in case my guitar "didn't do it." He wanted to describe in detail each combination of confused behavior it had done. WHich channel setting was on when each thing didn;t work. He had a sheet of paper full of notes. I know he meant well, but he would have talked about it for a half hour if I had not steered us away. Customers love to help, and we hear about the humidity in the summer and about how his basement practice room is only 65 degrees in winter, and a lot of other irrelevant stuff. We get to hear all the diagnoses the rest of the band came up with, and the input from his amatuer radio friend.

            A shop cannot afford to cough up a half hour visit for each repair. That is why many shops don;t give customers access to their techs. The counter man logs in the complaint, and the tech repairs it. A competent shop is not going to replace a weak reverb pan but ignore the red hot power tubes that you brought it in for.


            Call me before you do any work. This is a problem too. Your amp comes up in repair order, and I put it on the bench. I now have to call the customer, who may or may not be available, and now I am having the same conversation I just described above. Ask the shop to include your note with the amp for the tech. Tape a sheet of paper with your concern on it to the amp. If you don;t want the reverb repaired, simply say so. Otherwise expect the tech to take care of anything wrong. Most of us don;t want to put our names on a half done repair job. If the complaint is red hot tubes, and I fix only that and ignore a dead reverb. I am more likely to hear a complaint about not fixing the reverb than I am a thank you. We fix the amp so everything works. Don't worry, I won;t refinish the cabinet.

            Estimates. Many shops don;t do estimates for the simple reason we basically have to do the repair to find out what is wrong. That is work the tech does and should be paid for. The difference between an estimate and a completed repair is pretty much whether I solder in the new part or not. And in my experience when I have tried to make an estimate, the response to my $90 estimate is "OH good, I was just worried I might get a $300 repair bill." SO instead of me making the estimate, stopping my work on the unit, setting it aside, contacting the customer for his approval, getting it back out and finishing the job, we prefer to set up a budget limit at the start and just fix the amp.

            I call everyone when their repairs are done, and believe me it isn;t all that easy. I get no answers, I get leave a message, I get someone else who takes a message, and sometimes I even get the owner of the gear. If a tech adds that to each repair for estimates and approvals, he will be on the phone a lot. That is why it becomes the job of a counterman.


            One time I had a fellow bring me in an electric piano for service. We wrote up the repair, discussed likely costs, and I thought we were done. Then the guy says to me, right to my face, "can you tell me just when you will be doing the actual repairs?" I am not sure just when, why? "I want to come in and watch so you don't charge me for some work you didn;t do." I didn;t punch the man in the nose, but I did tell him to take his piano and never return to our store.
            Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

            Comment


            • #7
              The diode test on a meter displays voltage - the junction drop across the diode. I don;t know your meter, but I would then think if it were on mine that we were looking at 1.400v and .700v?

              With the output transformer primary disconnected, those diodes should measure a double drop voltage one way and completely open the other direction. The reading you give are very suspicious, thus my suggestion to lift them from the board.

              And arc can be hard to see - a small carbonized path to something grounded. On a power tube socket it is typically from pin 3 to pin 2. With the output transformer primary wires disconnected, there would be no voltage at the tube for an arc.

              With the OT primary disconnected neither a shorted flyback nor an arcing tube socket can blow fuses.
              Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry about the lack of a reply, but pulling up one end of each flyback diode(hard to get to) worked well and the amp works like a fire-breathing champ. I haven't been online since it started working, just paling til my fingers bleed. Thanks for the help, Enzo.

                Comment

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