Danger of helping Single Post members

[tubeswell]

If insurance is safety in numbers, then this forum has got to be a great place for learners and experienced people alike. I can attest to the fact that this is a highly dangerous hobby, but I was already modding my own valve amps before I found out about this forum. And I think lots of enthusiasts are in the same boat. In fact one of the most respected members on this forum told me about his forum, and I suspect that it was because he thought that it was a safer place for determined nut-cases like me. And I am truly grateful for that. The members of this forum have generously enhanced my understanding of the subject matter. (A big thank you to you all). I am also a lot wiser than I was before I joined this forum, and a lot more cautious about how I behave around high voltages. However, I guess there is no way of avoiding mortality, and people get killed doing stupid things every day. That won't hold me back from the enjoyment of making my own valve amps. However I do have a lot of respect for the sentiment expressed by bnwitt.

[izzybell2810]

If insurance is safety in numbers, then this forum has got to be a great place for learners and experienced people alike. I can attest to the fact that this is a highly dangerous hobby, but I was already modding my own valve amps before I found out about this forum. And I think lots of enthusiasts are in the same boat. In fact one of the most respected members on this forum told me about his forum, and I suspect that it was because he thought that it was a safer place for determined nut-cases like me. And I am truly grateful for that. The members of this forum have generously enhanced my understanding of the subject matter. (A big thank you to you all). I am also a lot wiser than I was before I joined this forum, and a lot more cautious about how I behave around high voltages. However, I guess there is no way of avoiding mortality, and people get killed doing stupid things every day. That won't hold me back from the enjoyment of making my own valve amps. However I do have a lot of respect for the sentiment expressed by bnwitt.

Very well put Tubeswell and I totally agree!!!

[Steve Conner]

You can tell noobs a mile off, they usually betray their level of knowledge (or ignorance) in the first few posts.

I personally choose to ignore them. If they blow themselves to kingdom come with high voltage, they can't blame bad advice from me, if they never got any advice from me.

On a more serious note: As you long-time tinkerers will know, there are so many other skills needed to work with electronics that you can't learn off a forum. It takes years of practical experience to pick them up.

If someone doesn't have these skills, it's a real struggle to help them with troubleshooting through a forum. You're effectively trying to tell them stuff in a language they don't know, and to do that you have to teach them the language as they go along. If they did have the skills, they wouldn't be posting noob questions here, they would have just gone ahead and fixed simple faults in less time than it took to fire up the computer.

The many people on this board who persist in struggling on to help newbies day after day, in spite of this language barrier and learning curve, I think must be saints. Either that or crazy.

[Enzo]

Those 105 guests are often not people. If you ever google something and find a link to some thread in this - or some other - forum, how did google know? Google and others have robots that scan forums like this one all the time for content. many guests are not real people.


This is an open forum, we start adding entry requirements, we get fewer members, we maybe even lose some we like. As soon as we start to add "you must be this tall for this ride" signs at the entrance, we open a can of worms. Everyone and his brother will then weigh in with important criteria that MUST be included. If we want a private member only discussion group, we could easily form one.

But every one of us started with zero knowledge, and few of us were trained. We have all made mistakes, made unwise assumptions, soldered a plug on the cable without the plug shell, and who can honestly say they never took a poke from a charged cap or a live circuit? Sure there are kids in over their heads just taking out the screws. We owe it to everyone to assess their level before responding, and stress safety. But better to have an interactive place to learn than just reading crap on the internet. I don;t think hiding my kids in the basement is the best way to prevent them getting sunburnt.

What is our standard? Is 12 years old too young? When I was 12 I was fixing TV sets for neighbors. I was building tube based short wave radios. Is 35 old enough? I know plenty that old who are Darwin Award candidates. How articulate must he be? I had a tech work for me for a while who was illiterate - seriously, couldn;t read. Was a good tech though. COUldn;t read a theory of operation guide, but could read schematics. How about the language? Might be a reasonable candidate but might a lack of English skills result in a fatal misunderstanding? How many people would we cut off who we would otherwise have helped just to keep the lowest common denominator from our door?

Are there ingrates? Sure. Are there kids who think this is some free service we have to perform? A few. Most people on here want to learn something, whether a better knowledge of amps or maybe just how to solve a problem they face. Maybe some want to avoid a paid repair, maybe some can;t afford it, maybe some live a two hour drive from the nearest tech. Hard to say the average motivation. But overall, I'd have to say the majority are relatively polite, fairly gracious, often say thank you. ANd as far as I know, most of them don;t blow themselves up.

[bnwitt]

Well I certainly must be crazy then. I enjoy helping newbies and teaching others what has been given to me by those above me. I do not believe anyone should be ignored or cut off from the aggregate knowledge of the techs in here regardless of age or any other arbitrary measurement. I was repairing short wave radios at the age of 11 (1966) thanks to an electronics tech father so I know that age means nothing.

My only desire is make those with no knowledge of the dangers of electricity who think they can just jump in and repair their personal tube amp understand that before they do, they need to learn basic electrical safety and the proper use of electronic tools. I want them to know they could be killed without this knowledge and then let them decide whether they want to proceed. Also, I don't want to be responsible for someone's injury because I assumed they know these things and I directed them in a repair they are not qualified to perform.

I think I have satisfied my fears and conscience with my new signature.

[Don Moose]

The many people on this board who persist in struggling on to help newbies day after day, in spite of this language barrier and learning curve, I think must be saints. Either that or crazy.

These are not mutually exclusive qualities.

While you don't deign to dabble with the naifs, you've done a lot to throw light into many of the corners of my considerable ignorance. Thank you for that.

I used to consider myself something of a debug wizard - well out past my actual experience level - so it was a joy for me to ferret out the problem and lead someone to a fix. That was a few years ago, and I've lost a lot of the energy that took. Sometimes I'll even wander away from the forum for months at a time. It's the sense of community and of sharing that keeps me coming back.

[martin manning]

Passing along what has been learned is somehow hard-wired into the human psyche. With some variation, we all seem to get some satisfaction from it. If you think about it, this has proven to be a good survival strategy for the species- where would we be if every new generation had to start over with technological discovery?

I think most are inclined to pass on what they have learned from those just above themselves in understanding (their knowledge "horizon") to those just below, and so gradually move up the ladder. There are a rare few, though, who can teach with enthusiasm at any level, and we have all probably encountered a teacher or mentor with this gift somewhere along the way.

I've certainly learned a lot here, and I really appreciate the efforts of those who contribute. The trek never ends as there is always more to learn, and that's just fine with me!

MPM

[drewl]

Well look at the bright side, either one of us will get a bigger repair job from a newbie that screwed up a simple repair, or somebody's gonna get a cheap amp from a greiving widow
When I was even more of an idiot I got nailed by extremely high voltages, which should have killed me.
But seriously, I guess I good discalimer or warnings would help.
I always caution people in person when asked for advice, maybe we should do so here more often.

[Enzo]

Aha, I just spotted the reason for this thread. Three hours isn't close to the record, but still shows some sort of idea of entitlement. I recall one forum entry somehere where the guy thought we were all sitting there waiting. Was griping that he had waited 10 minutes and gotten no response. There's some balls.

I remember a long time ago I was the service manager at a music store and someone called the shop asking advice on fixing his organ. (No cheap jokes, please) No sound, what to do? I suggested I'd start by checking plate voltages. The guy responded, "Is the plate that big metal thing in the bottom?" That was when i realized dealing with the unwashed masses needed a different approach than my fellow tech.

[gbono]

This is an open forum, we start adding entry requirements, we get fewer members, we maybe even lose some we like. As soon as we start to add "you must be this tall for this ride" signs at the entrance, we open a can of worms. Everyone and his brother will then weigh in with important criteria that MUST be included. If we want a private member only discussion group, we could easily form one.

I just started a class at the local Junior College - EE156 Photovoltaic system design and installation. No pre-reqs for the class. (I'm taking the class to get NABCEP certified.) Lot's of newbies who will be working with 600VDC/240VAC FOR THE FIRST TIME. What's the harm in letting people ask questions on an open forum like this one?

[Gaz]

I just started posting on this board (today) because it seems to be the one with the least misinformation. In fact, I think this board is the only one that could even ask or discuss intelligently such a self-critical question as, 'Should we give advice to those who might hurt themselves?" I think that says a lot about the level of maturity on this board.

I've been playing tube amps for about 9 years, and only got into the 'DIY' thing after dealing with a rude, dishonest, and sloppy tech about 6 months ago. After beginning my research, I found one thing in common with various websites I visited: BIG BOLD DISCLAIMERS ABOUT SAFETY HAZARDS. Being the intelligent young man that I am, I quickly (and miraculously) found a local tube amp maker who was generous enough to take me under his wing. I remember calling him, and my first questions were about saftey and bleeder resistors. He was so impressed!!!

Only 5 months later, I've built my first single ended class A 6V6 amp from scratch, biased amps, diagnosed various problems, drawn schematics, etc. etc. It's all because of nice folks like you all and my mentor giving noobz like me a chance; find a way into this 'hobby' laden in techno-babble and specialized knowledge.

The point is: give noobz a chance if they show a willingness to learn and take it slow and safely. I read three tube amp books before I ever even opened up an amp, let alone checked B+ voltage.

Racking up the posts,

Alex

[Gaz]

...Oh, and I haven't been 'bit' yet!

[tubeswell]

...Oh, and I haven't been 'bit' yet!

Don't count your chickens... its not a pleasant experience, and definitely not something you want to repeat (if you live through it). When my wife found out I'd zapped myself (hospital ECG report arrived in the post), she (understandably) went nuts at me (and all because I just got tired, lazy and careless one day)

[Enzo]

When I was a kid, maybe 12 years old, I was building a B+ supply for my bench. SO I could build up various circuits to test without having to build power supplies into them too. Dad wanders in and asks what I was up to. I told him I has building a 300 volt power supply. He immediately got concerned looking and ask, "Don't you think it would be better if you made that less voltage?" "Couldn't you use batteries?"

Dad was not too electrical.

[blckmynnse8]

I felt a bit guilty at first asking a question right off the bat as my first post joining this forum... normally I would have lurked for a bit if it weren't for my current hurried situation. I just started working as a technician at a music store, but this is a situation where I have to be my own boss so I'm having to think on my feet really fast to basically build a department out of pure nothing.

I've been doing electronics troubleshooting/repair as a profession for nearly eleven years but haven't worked "professionally" with music equipment other than doing repairs on some of my own gear.

Anyways, sorry if I had come across as the type of individual described in the o.p. who just rushes on in. I'm definitely hoping to contribute as much as I can in the future.