Danger of helping Single Post members

[bnwitt]

Aha, I just spotted the reason for this thread. Three hours isn't close to the record, but still shows some sort of idea of entitlement.

Nope, two different issues. The reason for this thread was a safety concern. The other thread you are referring to had the reason you mention for my reply and came after this thread was begun. My message to that poster was intended to be, "Come on fella, do a little research on your own first.".

[bnwitt]

...Oh, and I haven't been 'bit' yet!

Good lord I've been bit so many times I can't count them all. Sometimes it was due to fatigue and carelessness, and other times it was due to others' mistakes. I don't know how a person can do this work every day and not get shocked occasionally.

[anthillrich]

i also feel a little guilt from making my first post a question. i guess after being a long time lurker, i wrongfully assumed a sense of familiarity with the forum members. i have learned a great deal from reading the posts, and am thankfull. there is certainly no sense of entitlement felt by me(even if i came across that way), im not the most articulate guy in the world for sure. i do realize the value of a good tech(the only one i trust in my area is backlogged for weeks & weeks). i have been to many a music store service center and left with my broken gear, after talking with some "techs" that i swear knew less about gear than i did. not just amps, guitars as well. doing an "expert set up" with less care than i would expect. i wont name any stores , but i have seen it with my own eyes. no way do i trust them with my only amp.(that i can use at gigs anyway). its very frustrating to say the least. this is probably why you guys can almost smell the desperation of some of us newbies. please be patient with us. someday, maybe i'll be in a position to help somebody, & i will surely remember the kindness of others toward me.

[bnwitt]

Fellows come on now; there should be no guilt for making one's first post a question. That is perfectly understandable when you find this place when looking for a solution to a problem. The point of this thread was not to make people feel guilty about asking questions, but to remind us techs to be cognizant of the fact that some anxious DIY’ers might not know the first thing about protecting themselves from electrocution. The people in this forum are great folks who like to help others. The last thing I want is to help someone injure themselves, that’s all. The only dumb question is the unasked one.

[mac1amps]

Yet ANOTHER perspective on this thread........As much as I don't mind helping someone with an issue on repair work, servicing amps has been my career my entire adult life (I'm currently 56). 'having serviced over 10,000 amps in my day, I've got a pretty big background of 36 years hands-on experience. Nevertheless, in this day and age, giving out info that took me years to acquire, it's hard not to feel a bit resentful, especially since the gross income I made in 2008 barely cleared $10K. I was a musician though, long before I started doing amp work, so I have an understanding sympathy for the "starving artist", which is why I charge my clientele very fairly (to the point that it's unfair to myself-so my friends & family say), even though they usually don't realize it.

[bnwitt]

I have the lowest bench rate of any amp shop within 200 miles and I'm the only one within 50 miles of my town. I still get price resistance from customers. This is a very tough business in my area and I imagine pretty much every small town. I may end up in the solar system installation business soon.

[gbono]

I may end up in the solar system installation business soon.

You are located in a good location

[Chuck H]

For me, what it comes right down to is whether or not I feel I can get the information to the poster in a way they will understand and keeps them safe. It's not often but once in a while a noob poster makes a few assumtions in their post that show how far off the mark they are and or their problem description requires testing that they clearly don't have the experience to perform. The last thing I want to do is to tell some know it all who doesn't really know anything to go poking around inside a tube amp. Certain personality types don't play well with safety measures. Then there's the guy who says something like 'The smoke came out near some of the tubes and it smelled funny'. I'm not sending them inside either.

Chuck

[teemuk]

I disagree on some accounts… I don’t really understand why we should be acting as “parents”, warning people about the obvious things they should understand themselves. If someone wants to do so, fine by me, but I don't like to be obliged to do so. I think that people should (and do) generally possess some common sense and some critical understanding about their abilities. I don’t try to fix things if I have no clue how (and gladly stay away from such equipment), and if someone tries I don’t really care if he ruins a piece of expensive gear or shocks him/herself. That’s pretty much asking for it in my book. Giving people technical advice isn’t really equal to forcing or encouraging them to do something stupid – and the people who do stupid things likely do them whether you give them advice or not.

Also, the amplifiers / other electric equipment usually already have the neccessary disclaimers written in them: “No user replaceable parts inside. Risk of electric shock! Lethal Voltage! Do not open!” …Or something along those lines. Those sentences are pretty self-explanatory.

[olddawg]

Is it really any different than selling parts with no accountability? In that case there is no advice at all. I have been working with electronics since I was 12. As a performing guitarist I have gotten zapped by more hot mics in old clubs than I care to count. (Admit it, how many of you have done the back hand test on a hot mic?) As a tech I have been hit by CRT HVs (luckily didn't break my hand against a wall like so many), hot chassis, laser power supplies, and the like over 25+ years. I even got hold of a mis-labled AC mains that I had to be physically dislodged from as a kid. I hurts. It's scary. But I survived. Life is risk and risk is life. I'm not advocating carelessness or ignorance, but unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. It seems that most of the techs on this board lessen the risk by trying to dispell ignorance. That is a good thing.

[Regis]

My level of tech ability will never be at that of most of the guys on this forum. I read this forum every day trying to glean a little knowledge about guitar amps. I get nervous a lot of the time because sometimes I feel a question I am asking is simple, or just plain dumb. At no time has anyone ever made me feel dumb, and I always get treated with respect.

There's an Aesops fables tale about a guy that gets his cart stuck in a ditch and right off starts crying for Hercules to come and help him. Hercules sticks his head out from behind a cloud and tells him, "You want me to do it for you? Put your shoulder to that cart and whip up those horses, and then maybe I'll give you a hand."

What I feel people here want and what I try to do is do as much research as I can before asking. I have lots of tube amp data I have gotten from the internet, and a number of books which I peruse regularly.

I see regularly 1 post members asking: "My amp amp made a funny noise and quit, and it smells funny. I checked the fuse, what else could it be?" These guys aren't interested in learning to tinker with amps, they want a fix for free, and aren't interested in being a member of this community.

Then there's our friend KLDGUITAR, who purportedly works for an amp company but barely knows how to find the input jack. He's not interested in being a member of the community either.

You can usually tell when a new guy (Hate that word noob) genuinely wants to learn. If it's about a topic I have skills or knowledge in I always try to help because being a member of this community means giving back as well as taking.

[Enzo]

I never forget that I am not merely writing for the poster. I always write knowing a whole ton of people are also following along somewhere. I get personal emails all the time, "You seem to know about amps, well, mine is doing..."

I always invite them to post it on the forum so everyone may benefit. I am not a free service, I am trying to spread knowledge of good troubleshooting technique. Private conversations share nothing. SO maybe some kid just wants a free repair wherever he is, I still want to respond for all the other lurkers too timid to join in but wanting to learn. Lurkers who might be more serious. The price you pay for my advice is making it public.

I don;t resent the guy watching his wallet, I also don;t want to throw out the earnest kid wanting to learn just because the guy ahead of him in line was a mooch.

I do agree that often people substitute asking something online for actually trying to find out something. We really ought not have to google up an amp model and post a link to its schematic when the original poster could have done the same. But that is just the nature of people. SOme folks don;t tip the waitress, some don;t hold open doors for you. We could put up some rules of thumb somewhere in a sticky on this forum, :how to get technical information", but would they read that fiorst anyway? DOubt it.

I have a great deal of experience. I wish I knew someone with some experience when I was growning up and learning. I have learned a lot, and continue to do so. This place is extremely educational. All the time I go to explain something and realize I never quite knew something fully, so in explaining it to others, I firmed up my own knowledge of the topic. But I don;t know how many more years I have on this earth, and I'd hate to think my accumulated knowledge would just evaporate and disappear with me. I want to try and pass it on as much as I can. If I can move some young person's skills along to a higher level, then I have made my contribution.


And of course the single most important thing I know:

When putting wood or sheetmetal screws back into the hole, always turn them backwards until they drop into the old threads. That prevents cutting new ones.

[bnwitt]

You know Enzo, I couldn't have said it half as well as you just did my friend. I certainly hope you are on this earth many more years to come. I share your desire to leave some sort of charitable legacy. I hope it is more than just technical knowledge though. By your post it is easy for me to see that electronics is the least of your talents. The way one should live one's life is a lesson you have definitely learned well and one that transcends your knowledge of the flow of electrons. I truly hope that your legacy will be the sharing of that knowledge rather than any collection of minimal circuit malfunction solutions. I’ve never met you, but I have read many of your posts and I can say that anyone who does so will quickly learn what you are really all about. I am sure your family and friends cherish you as many of us in here do.

I see some of the posters in here who just come in demanding the goods they seek and don’t want to invest any personal time to understand the technology or contribute to the forum as people who need a more important lesson in life than why R68 burned up. Hell lots of them never even say thank you. When I see such selfishness it makes me morph into Mr. Miyagi. Wax on and wax off Daniel. Snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper.

During my years as an air conditioning contractor I had as customers about 15 gentlemen who were world war two veterans. These men were the most selfless human beings I’ve ever met. I spent 20 minutes repairing their air conditioners and heaters during each visit and hours sitting on their porches listening to their wisdom. They were indeed the greatest generation. I learned so much about honor and integrity from them that I can never repay that debt.

My generation had a more “Me” mentality and believed “Don’t trust anyone over 30.” and this current generation has even less respect for those that have come before. “Yada, yada, yada, shut up old man and fork over the information” is more the current mindset. This makes it very difficult to impart our acquired knowledge forward. But I’ll keep trying to make them slow down and listen. Just as you do. Only, I’ll throw a little “Have some respect there pal” at them too.

Enzo, you are a hell of a man in my book. I read all of your posts carefully seeking every gem inside of them whether electronics related or life related. Thank you sincerly for what you do in here every day.

[Enzo]

Thanks, not looking for praise.

[bnwitt]

Thanks, not looking for praise.

and of course that's what makes you special