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notes for Marshall SE100 schematic @ Blue Guitar

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  • notes for Marshall SE100 schematic @ Blue Guitar

    this is just some notes I took to go along with the Marshall SE100 speaker emulator schematic on Steve A.'s site

    http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/marshall/se100.pdf

    (looking inside my own SE100) so it's easier to follow.

    for "BACK PCB" page of schematic, connector "PL1":

    pin #- wire color
    1 - Green
    2 - Orange
    3 - Black
    4 - Red
    5 - Brown
    6 - Pink

    for "CHOKE PCB" page of schematic "FRONT PCB" connector:

    1 - Orange
    2 - Yellow
    3 - Blue
    4 - White
    5 - Purple
    6 - Black
    7 - Brown
    8 - Pink

    for "CHOKE PCB" page of schematic, "BACK PCB" connector:

    1 - Green
    2 - Orange
    3 - Black
    4 - Red
    5 - Brown
    6 - Pink

    Letters "A, B, C, D...N" indicate points on the PCB.

    for "FRONT PCB" page of schematic, connector "PL" marked "to Choke Assembly":

    1 - Orange
    2 - Yellow
    3 - Blue
    4 - White
    5 - Purple
    6 - Black
    7 - Brown
    8 - Pink

    (from another post) :

    (at least in my unit) the main load (in the Power Brake) is 10R, not 8R2, so these loads in the SE100 and PB are not exactly the same. Also, "R2" (on the Blue Gtr. PB schematic) is 100R in mine and not 56R. Re: the SE100, the loads work like this: there are 3 loads from hot to ground (see schematic heaven schematic), the first one comes in for 6dB attenuation, and the output is taken from "C". The configuration is like this:

    http://www.webervst.com/lpad.htm

    where R1 and R2 make up the load from hot to ground in the SE100. On 12dB reduction, the first network is switched out, and the middle one comes in. On 18dB, both come in, output taken from the middle network. On "load", the third one comes in but the two other networks can be switched in in parallel.

    There is a big aluminum heatsink which all the power resistors and 3 12.5mH inductors are mounted on. It's basically a rectangular piece bent into an "L" that is partly vertical and partly across the bottom rear side of the chassis.

    To remove the PCB, pull off the knobs (try hooking a slightly fat string and pulling if you have trouble--this way you don't scratch the plastic on the knob), remove the knob nuts and PHONES nut, one screw on the inside holding down the PCB towards the very left, and remove the two connectors. Careful not to scratch the wire insulation with the PCB edges.

    Aluminum electrolytic caps on the CHOKE PCB are "T.M." brand, "100WV", radial leads. The smaller inductors are (I think) ferrite core (cylindrical with a fatter part in the middle, marked "NDE" which is apparently some UK company), the 3 12.5mHs are iron core(?)--they look like Marshall chokes, marked "Drake Transformers".

  • #2
    hi there dai h.,

    this is my first post. i'm new to this forum, and joined immediately after finding your post on google... thanks for the insights on the SE100, i've been wondering if i should give this one a go as a DIY project.

    it doesn't look that complicated, but i think one can safely assume that the components are rather critical here. i did try to find the marshall 12.5 mH chokes, but no cigar. also, the transistor type is not specified, but looking at the circuit, they only seem to be in buffer configuration. so i'm guessing that it would be worthwhile to experiment with medium gain silicon NPNs.

    since i am moving back to india in a while, i could probably have the chokes hand wound cheap. the smaller inductors could probably be wound at home, but i'm not too familiar with inductors. what voltage are the caps rated at? i would imagine 630V, without having actually seen the insides.

    something that i find strange about the circuit is the fact that it only accepts an 8 ohm output from the amp. i wonder if there is a way to encounter this - i doesn't really matter that much to me since my amp (an ancient italian steelphon 30 watter) has only an 8 ohm output. how does the impedance of the speaker cabinet affect the SE100? does it handle 16 ohm cabs well?

    i'd be really grateful to you if it were possible for you to post photos of the innards of your cabinet, if and when you have the time. looking forward to discussing this reputedly great piece of equipment further with you!

    best regards, adi

    Comment


    • #3
      hi, I did provide a link to some pics of mine in another thread. There is also a link to Rafael's SE100 project. Check it out:

      http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ighlight=se100

      for the inductors and bipolar aluminum electrolytics, check out places that sell parts for speaker crossovers.

      something that i find strange about the circuit is the fact that it only accepts an 8 ohm output from the amp. i wonder if there is a way to encounter this - i doesn't really matter that much to me since my amp (an ancient italian steelphon 30 watter) has only an 8 ohm output. how does the impedance of the speaker cabinet affect the SE100? does it handle 16 ohm cabs well?
      look for info on attenuators. To make sense of the load, try leaving out the inductors and LC pairs and plug those into one of those speaker attenuator calculator programs (google for sites that have calculators for designing spk. crossovers) and it should make sense. For example, on the 18dB attenuation setting, (if you used a 16ohm spk.) the spk. would be in parallel with a 3ohm R.

      Check out the Air Brake (attenuator) info at the amp garage also.

      as for using an attenuator with your old amp, this could turn out to be disastrous if the output transformer was never designed to handle the amp being cranked to max. output so be careful. (Amps put out more power into clipping and some old amps were never intended to be used on max. output. with lots of clipping and increased output possibly to the point where the OT can not handle the increased power going through it and overheating, compromising the insulation over the wire inside.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dai h. View Post
        hi, I did provide a link to some pics of mine in another thread. There is also a link to Rafael's SE100 project. Check it out:

        http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ighlight=se100

        for the inductors and bipolar aluminum electrolytics, check out places that sell parts for speaker crossovers.



        look for info on attenuators. To make sense of the load, try leaving out the inductors and LC pairs and plug those into one of those speaker attenuator calculator programs (google for sites that have calculators for designing spk. crossovers) and it should make sense. For example, on the 18dB attenuation setting, (if you used a 16ohm spk.) the spk. would be in parallel with a 3ohm R.

        Check out the Air Brake (attenuator) info at the amp garage also.

        as for using an attenuator with your old amp, this could turn out to be disastrous if the output transformer was never designed to handle the amp being cranked to max. output so be careful. (Amps put out more power into clipping and some old amps were never intended to be used on max. output. with lots of clipping and increased output possibly to the point where the OT can not handle the increased power going through it and overheating, compromising the insulation over the wire inside.)
        wow, that was quick! and extremely informative as well...

        i think the amp is relatively safe - the output transformer is massively oversized, as is the power transformer. i would normally associate an OT of this size with a 50-70 watter and not with a 4XEL84 end stage. i'll try to take a picture and upload it sometime. it has a bass channel and a bass bost switch - even with my lousy laney/HH 10" "cab", the bass response is huge, and it handles the low B of my bass pretty well. i think they oversized it a bit to increase the low end, but i'm just guessing here. the amp sounds great, but i can't take it beyond 1 (out of ten) for fear of neighbours or waking the dead, etc.

        the amp needs a serious overhaul nonetheless, it's pretty gunked up and the caps are still the original facon dual caps. i also want to trace a schematic; i've been planning to do this for months, but i've had 10 other things (am finishing up studies right now) to do since then. i'll get to work on it more once i hand in my thesis.

        the air brake had me somewhat confused. somebody posted the innards once in an ebay auction, so i saved the picture - one wire-wound rheostat with what seem to be 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps, a wire wound potentiometer, one capacitor, and a strange black tube that i couldn't identify till you posted! thank you very much for those links.

        the simplicity of the air brake is attractive, but the plethora of options that the SE100 offers is what attracts me to the project. i have never heard the SE100 in action, though. the only two attenuators that i have heard in person are the flabbergasting SPL transducer at musikmesse and the THD hot plate of a friend. i didn't like the hot plate much - sounded rather fizzy and took some of the substance out of his JCM 800 non-mv 2203.

        i will study the links that you've posted here... it'll be a while before i get to india, but if i do decide to give the SE-100 a shot, i will post here. regards, adi

        Comment


        • #5
          you can find the schematic as well as a physical layout with parts values, mouser (electronics) number here:

          http://ampgarage.com/

          as far as the SE100, it doesn't really sound that great relative to a mic'ed speaker IMO. I've heard of people adding further processing to the same sort of signals (speaker output connected to a reactive load and dropped down to line level) through EQ'ing software designed to simulate a speaker cabinet response, so possibly you could use the SE100 circuit(or similar device) to get decent results with that. The attenuator seems okay but the max attenuation setting (18dB) is still loud but you could try just more attenuation using some resistors or a combination of resistors and rheostat, plus maybe a small cap bypassing some of the resistance if it sounds like the highs need to be compensated(should work on the lows as well using a bigger value I think).

          Also, if you want an attenuator and choose to build something really complex and sophisticated, at the end you could find that it would have made more sense to use the money to buy a lower power amp. That it said, an attenuator could still be useful, although probably harder to get a good tone the more the signal is attenuated.

          Additionally, if you build a speaker emulating load (or even just a non-reactive--i.e. no inductors) this could be used for a "reamping" setup where the amp basically becomes a distortion box into another power amp. Could be useful in that way.

          Comment

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