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Marshall JMP 50 watt bias

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  • Marshall JMP 50 watt bias

    Hi Guys:

    A friend gave me a JMP Marshall Mark 2 Lead 50 watt head built in 1979 to fix. I replaced the input and output jacks for him. While I was in there I checked out the tubes. The 6550’s checked strong and were well matched (tested on my Hickok). I measured the plate voltage before biasing and came up with 353 volts which struck me as rather low for an amp running 6550s.

    At first I thought the electros were weak but they also checked out good. Then I disconnected the secondary of the PT to read an unloaded voltage and came up with 268V AC. I was about to condemn the PT but what bothered me was that it looked fine visually and was obviously original. The part number is 1202 164. I did a little research online and found out to my surprise that for this particular transformer those voltages seem to be normal.

    My question is what do I bias this amp at? If I plug those plate voltages into a bias calculator I get a suggested bias MA number of 83.2 for 70% AB1 operation. The highest numbers I can get are between 30-40 MA on the existing setup. What should I set it at?

    BTW when I opened this amp up the mains AC was soldered to the 100V tap on the transformer. It looked that way from the factory. The resulting voltages were a little higher—289VAC and 381 VDC on the plates. I found a chart of this particular transformer on line and moved the AC entry on to the (correct?) 120v tap thus the lower output voltages that I noted above.

  • #2
    Been there, did that. LOL Yeah, it was a '78 JMP and it had 6550's too. But the owner wanted EL34's, so I converted it to them. Bias should be between -38 to -48 volts for 6550's.
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    • #3
      I wonder why they used such a low plate voltage? The amp seems to lack some oomph. Any opinions as to changing out the PT for one with higher voltage specs?

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      • #4
        They were in a design transition then, Drake, their supplier, may have suggested using the lower voltage to keep output tubes from failing. Anyway, there are aftermarket transformers from Mercury Magnetics, Heyboer, Hammond and maybe others. From what your saying, you cant get a low enough negative voltage to bring the current up to those recommended by the Calc?
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        • #5
          Yes. When I take millivolt reading to adjust MA I can only get about 40mv on the maximum bias pot setting. That is, if I remember correctly, as I'm not in front of the amp right now. Suggested MA via the calculators is something like 70 to 80 for the plate voltage and type of tube (6550)

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          • #6
            I would look at a schematic and make sure all the parts are the right values. Something may have been changed in a past mod. Look at the bias circuit and the grid circuit of the 6550's.
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            • #7
              the bias resistor inline with the bias pot needs to be lowered in value to allow more bias current....47K stock, try a 27K and see what the bias range is

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              • #8
                I have one that is struggling to produce 10vac into 4 ohms..that's a puneey 25 watts. I am thinking the output impedance selector is so floppidy that the ot may have been left unloaded for a while...and...fumpha...arco-fryo! Still smells ok though.
                anyone know what the input impedance is supposed to be for a pair of el34's?...about 1.8k on some 2.2 on others...of course 5.5 in the high-fi world

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                • #9
                  IIRC the priZ is about 3.9k for those amps. I had an old one (first issue "Master Lead") with 420Vp and a newer one (early 80's) with 380Vp. That 380Vp is probably correct whith the PT hooked to the right primaty tap. Also IMHE you do absolutely need to modify the bias supply to achieve the required bias range. I switched both of mine to el34's so the bias modification was inevitable. Maybe the most under rated balls out rock amp ever. I kind of wish I still had my older one. It was a peach. Never worried about my tone, just played my guitar. What a concept.
                  "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                  "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                  "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                  You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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                  • #10
                    Thanks so much for the input...

                    Over the years I have noticed some players prefer a little crossover distortion...(way low bias).

                    I usually set it as low as possible, but without crossover distortion...but never where they were originally...(too short a tube life)

                    I just finished a Knight Kit (KN-95) with 4 EL34's...they run at about 525 on the plates (ultralinear) and it does do about 50 watts per channel...originally the circuit called for 75 mils per tube!!! Geez what a tube destroyer (they ran red normally)... But in 1959 who cared they were cheap. It doubled as a laundry device!..or house burner

                    Any how we put in a little helper transformer in the bias circuit, so the outputs did not have to do all the lifting...(they were lighting the preamp tube filaments with the cathode current).... Cheap dc supply... as long as you change your EL34's every 4 months.

                    Any how thanks for the reply...

                    Mr.Coil

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                    • #11
                      FWIW my '73 50watt has a plate voltage of around 375v, and it still sounds great....just as a Plexi sounds.

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                      • #12
                        Yep...I,...WE, have spent hours on this trying to solve an unsolvable quandary ...after all the testing, testing, and more testing.... everything is working as intended...there is no way a transformer can "Lose" volts without self destruction. (even if one turn shorts..there would be lots of heat generated).

                        This amp has no MYSTERY load on the PS... so... this is the way it came. If we put in a pair of 6550's its power goes up to maybe 35 watts...and that's within 1dB of 50 watts so I'm happy with this unusual piece. (BTW it sounds great) It all started when everyone agreed that the power trans should put out much much more than it does.

                        I see other bloggers talking about having one of these amps, and they actually run 6V6's in it because of it's unusually low voltage..
                        Like Teri Carr told Richard Dreyfus...."Its just one of those things"

                        Thanks to all, for your responses.

                        Mr.Coil

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                        • #13
                          6550s at that plate voltage is a waste. Not even enough to "wake them up". EL34s would be a better option, and even those would be loafing at that plate supply.
                          The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

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                          • #14
                            +++
                            Though I don't entirely understand only 35 watts like it's some kind of unbreakable cieling. Why you can't simply up the current until the desired dissapation within the tubes limitations is reached?!? Why can't a pair 6550's at 355Vp be biased at, say, 50mA each to idle at 35 watts AB1 and of course produce more power when signal is applied? I'm wondering if there aren't some shinanagins with the power transformer.
                            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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                            • #15
                              Someone said they shipped those with them...because they made the trip over here more reliably. Whatever...I left the El34's in.

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