Wanted to get some advice about starting reconing at my amp shop. Good idea?

[AudioWorks]

Ok now i just took a break from the bench it was a kinda long day.
Yeah were in Seabrook right behind hooters, got totally flooded during Ike boats and yachts were thrown across our front and back crazy stuff. Managed to save all the gear and equipment, I worked alone until 5 min before the roads were impassible and the bridge was already under. so i took the back way. I did lose a personal organ i couldn't pick up on my own.
As far as where i find good techs i trained most the ones i think are good. And found a a couple through other people that are excellent. Thats something i noticed when i was working at 3 of the other area shops trying to learn hands on, alot of them werent willing to spend the time to do alittle teaching. And then some wondered why the had all this gear and only one tech skilled to repair all of it most of the time. Course i had an electronics background anyways from Jr college but nothing compares to hands on. So really i like to spend alittle bit each day teaching some one. Could use another good guy actually.
But yeah i would say Houston has lacked a king of the hill repair shop for some time. I mean since haus quit or so thats what some of his old clients tell me. I never met the guy personally but supposedly he was the well known individual tech Id hear a good deal about. But even so theres enough repair in Houston to support the other old and new shops. I don't know how long that will last. I dont know if the economic times are good or bad for this work as i haven't had a chance to run a shop in a good economy as of yet.
Allen's speaker reconing is def the king of speakers around here but they are pretty far from me.
Now i get a decent amount of recone request, but theres a couple companies i do a good bit of work for and they have lots of speakers needing work all the time and I'm pretty sure that would be enough to keep some work in at the start. Ive spoke with the steamboat owner a few times hes a nice guy.
I'm not gonna worry about competition at this point. If a former tech of mine wants to go out and start his own then so be it. Its what i did and i know a couple guys i worked with did the same. I sometimes see kind of a mean competitive thing going on between shops. I mean I'm sure we have all had the occasional customers from one another's shops telling us how bad the other guys service was but i take it with a grain of salt. I mean some people just want something for nothing and the minimum is always to much. Its just Houston's pretty fertile as of right now so we could help each other out. Sometimes i send guys to mikes f.'s shop when I'm to backed up when i just cant say its gonna be a 2 month wait to some one who needs his gear to preform.
Oh and dan if your nearby heres my email audioworks@att.net

[AudioWorks]

All known amp techs in Houston region:

Mike Fratus: 713-874-1483
Audio Works: 713-893-4948
Houston Amp Repair (Jeff Seal): 281 898-4433
Allen Speaker Reconing: 713-862-2747
Reid Walker Services: 713-789-5296
Steamboat Amp Works (Jake): 713-865-3543
The Tone Doctor (Lance): 281-881-3364
Speaker Surgeon (Christopher): 281-922-5662

If I need to remove the phone numbers due to board policies, please let me know.

Yeah theres also Jose at milltones i think he caters allot to the Hispanic musicians. then parkers i think Jeff might work there. Evens music city Reid walker used to be there, but i know they still do repairs themselves now. Oh and then theres all those industrial/tv consumer repair places like bamel that accept amps and pa. I wonder how many proaudio clients they really get. Who does the electronic repair work at allens now?

[Gibsonman63]

The fact that it is hard to find a good amp tech is the reason I stumbled on to this board in the first place. Haus used to work on my Fender amps in the 80's. Once he start trying to retire he was always backed up forever. My modest collection of Fenders slowly cratered over the years and I didn't have anyone I really trusted to work on them. After half a dozen books, a couple of DVDs, some kind (and patient) help from the gentlmen of this forum and couple of years of my spare time, I have all the amps running and sounding great.

I have to keep buying amps now or I will run out of things to solder.

[Enzo]

When I mentioned a tech leaving you, I wasn;t thinking of the competition angle. We were talking about a tech shortage. SO I wondered, if a guy were to leave, how many real opportunities would there be for him? Are there 5-10 standing openings in Houston jusy begging for someone to apply? or would he have to hunt for someone looking to hire or maybe have to leave town.

[AudioWorks]

I doubt someone would have to leave the area. A couple guys i was gonna hire didnt like the idea of driving 20 min to work so they declined the job and supposedly needed work so it cant be that bad. I know when i was first looking for work in Houston it was kinda like one phone call and a job the next day. That could have changed now but it wasn't very long ago. Maybe the last of the older guys that grew up on tubes are just retiring

[clydey]

great thread guys some good info here.
although i am uk side of the pond and seeking all info on mayby doing amp repairs i chanced upon a tech selling peavey spares in the us an we exchanged e-mails.
i was curios why he was selling all these spares and he replied to me.
ill keep him anonymous but these are his points
he was burned out by the trade, he started working in shops in 1980,worked his way up in companies like kurzweil in boston, fender in nashville as well as being warranty for just about everyone. there is other names he could drop but you get the picture. below is a quote
"ok on your question...in my opinion if i was starting now. i would specialise in something. Either become the go to guy in some boutique end of the gear spectrum. Like just do old tube amps and know them inside out and do the shows and stuff. If you end up trying to fix everything, keys, rack gear, tube amps, transistor amps i think the money is way less. Mainly because you will have to become warranty authorized to get parts and the companies will nickel and dime you to death. Their 5 year warranty is pretty much the death call of a lot of shops in my opinion. Now you may be one of the guys that really like the challenge of fixing everything that comes in the door and i know guys like this I myself was at one time and now i am just burnt out.
so if repair gives you a spark and you love it, go for it. At one time the teachers in school would turn the other way when they saw me coming with my questions lol
So again if i was starting today i would specialize, it will be slower at first to get business but like with old tube amps, after you get it down and get real good at it another bonus is you dont have to keep up with the latest technology breakthroughs. Like i did, I attended the first DX7 seminar yamaha put on and had to stay on top of it after that... very time consuming over the years" unquote
This to me is honest advice of a guy who has seen it, done it and bought the Tshirt.
I do not get any job satifaction being an electrician and having come through from the electronics side , done the valves and experienced the electronic throw a way culture i am possible looking for a way back in but doing so by standing on the shoulders of giants Enzo Wilder Joey Voltage Steve Conner and a whole load of people with the patience to sit on this forum (and others)day after day talking people through repairing their ss/valve amps and the original posters have limited electronics knowhow and sometimes only have a multimeter and a soldering iron. My apologies to a couple of posters for not mentioning their names but they are doing great service on this site cheers.
i would love more business technical advice along the simulas of this thread cheers

[Enzo]

Everyone's situation is different. What happens to me here in Lansing won;t be the same as what happens in Houston. Or London. (Everyone in the UK is in London, right?)

I bet your man was right... for him. If you want to become THE worlds greatest pedal steel amp repair guy, and you are sitting in NAshville, well you got a shot. But if you are trying that trick in Boise Idaho, Rumford Maine, or Lansing Michigan, well lots of luck. Specializing weeds out certain chaff, yes it does, but it also restricts your customer pool. Wanna be the boutique amp guy? Great. How many of them are in your area? Within 50 miles? I do get repairs here from all over Michigan, but most guys balk at driving over 50 miles. Out in Montana, folks are willing to drive farther for stuff, but there are a whole lot fewer people to draw from. You gotta specialize in something there is a market for where you are.

I get a LOT of stuff shipped to me UPS or FedEx, but if I became the worlds best Ampeg SVT guy, I still think a whole lot of people would balk at the $90 each way shipping cost, if they are sending it to me from California.

But you have to do something, I suspect it would be hard to make a living in Manhattan doing nothing but changing guitar strings.

I disagree with your guy about warranty status. Some companies are a little slow to pay, but for the most part they are paying me $50 an hour or more. That ain't much for someone like Frondelli in New York whose shop rate is $125 if I recall, but out here in the weeds wher I charge $60 and hour it is close enough. Those manufacturer referrals are tons of new customers I wouldn;t see otherwise.

Fender now pays weekly. I mailed off a stack of claims to Behringer on or about February 27 and got notice of direct deposit today. I got no complaints. Don't know what it would be like in the UK though.

Most places I can charge up to a couple hours on a repair, within limits. We usually get a rate schedule explaining limits.

And 5-year warranty? SO what? I get paid for the repair whether the amp is a week old or 4.5 years old. TO ME those warranty station affiliations are like gold. But it may not work out as well for someone else.

[clydey]

just been onto frondelli new york website dbm audio
impressive rates cheers for that Enzo

[AudioWorks]

Sometimes i think i do more then i should. But i dont think i should only do vintage tube amps because i know alot of guys that do that and dont make lots as far as my area goes. Now of course i love working on the tube gear, like i got a dr. Z maz 38, a krankinstien, a sunn300, a champ, and blackface in over the weekend but you can make allot of money excepting cheaper s.s. pa gear even digital cause so very often its something like the solder joint on the power jack broke, or a dirty pot or like where they crimped the speaker cable to the board you solder it like it should have been... and then there you go 50 dollar min in no time or what ever the min is. I actually take stuff alot of other people wont take, but i also give out free estimates if its something not worth much to begin with. So far it seams so be working pretty good.
My experience with warranty work has been kinda iffy to say the least. I wont name any names but a few companies were really anal about things and setting limits and prices and waits, and i dont wanna lie about problems to increase warranty pay, i mean all it takes is one disgruntled employee to blow the whistle on your lies on repairs and then it can destroy your business. But im sure theres some great warranty work out there also and it def really helps to be listed in your area as the go to guy for a brand when ever anyone calls

[olddawg]

I've been out of the repair business for a number of year so maybe the rules have changed. You would not believe how many shops I have seen fold because of warranty work even when they are making a profit on paper. They start as an aspiring hole in the wall doing COD work. Then they get authorized for a few brands. Then more brands. Then they have more work so they have to hire more people, get more space,etc and the overhead goes up and everythink looks great. Growth, steady cash flow, profit sucess. The rule of thumb I always was told was to never ever have more than 50% warranty work. Here's what happens. When you hit a recession the first thing that the manufactures do is float themselves a loan by delaying there payments. Most make you buy the parts first also. Some are supposed to pay in a 30 day cycle, some 60, some even 90. It they double or triple the time it takes for them to cut you check or you don't get paid and have to resubmit denied claims (another little game they play), Uncle Sam still wants his cut. The next thing you know is that you are making great money on paper but going out of business in the fast lane. Now some shops in some areas can and do negotiate different arrangements with the manufactures because there is no one else for hundreds of miles to save their sorry reputations. In major popualtion areas they just find some other fool and the cycle starts all over.

[Enzo]

That doesn;t mirror my experience with it. But I guess each situation is different.

I pay the IRS their due on what I make. If OEM X hasn't sent me a check or a credit, then I haven;t made the money, and I won;t declare it. I don;t consider pending payments income SOme OEMs want you to file promptly, while others let you save them up if you want.

In the current age, Fender pays me quickly, Loud fairly quickly, Korg/Marshall pretty good, Peavey good, behringer about a month, TEAC average, and so on. Samson always pays, but they take their own sweet time about it. But I know going in that Samson won;t be very prompt, so I am not already spending before I get it.


SOme OEMs will send you warranty parts gratis if you set it up with the claim, but most will invoice you for the warranty parts. Parts are parts, you order them you get invoiced. But the other side of that is that I have a few Net 30 accounts, but a bunch of them are Net 60 and Net 90, and I often let invoives float against labor credits. I buy a Marshall transformer for $50 for a warranty repair, I get the part and an invoice. I do the repair and file the claim. I get $50 credit for the part, plus $50 for installing it.

I used to do so much warranty work on the Korg/Marshall stuff, my account was always a credit balance. Every time I ordered something, it almost always was part of a claim that generated a labor return, so my parts for stock were paid for out of that credut. ANd whenever the credit balance grew to something attractive, I'd ask for a check to settle up. Actually I usually ran a credit balance with PV and SLM too.

On warranty claims I can always claim for the shipping on the parts order. SO I try to keep my want list handy, and when I have to order a warranty part, I add my stock parts orders at the same time. Let the warranty repair shipping reimbursement cover the shipping on my stuff too.

I can see how a shop could get in over its head with warranties, but they can do that as a cash shop too.

[AudioWorks]

What do you guys think about doing work for music companies like Guitar center, musicwise, and local stores? I mean its great to be the guy referred to all their customers, and i know guitar centers can generate a ton of broken gear on their own, like pallets and pallets at a time. But ive seen some business get burned by accepting all these pallets of gear and then just letting them sit in the back wharehouse so long that the store eventually asks for it back causing the music store to lose on the huge shipping costs back and fourth and the shop no longer being referred by anyone. I mean its super important to not just depend on referrals from stores and companies and have some name recognition, outside advertising, walk-ins and things.
What olddawg said about the warranty work does sound pretty bad i hope its the exception, more experiences like enzo has had.
Right now im pretty full with gear but i try to keep the companies happy and the customers its a balancing act. I mean you cant just put a 20 piece order on the bench solely making all the customers wait on that. Thats what brings me back to my original point that i could always use another good tech even right now.
Im working weekends at the moment trying to keep the wait at 2 weeks being the longest. Oh and i do allow performing musicians priority when it comes to time. I know some shops charge a rush fee, ive never really done it. Ive thought about it when it gets real busy like it does, but i think it would just be smarter to reassess your prices you know cost and demand kind off thing.

[Enzo]

Your shop has so much volume capacity. You don;t want to exceed it, or you bog down. I do work for a number of dealers, and I enjoy the relationships. They feed me a steady stream of work, and more important a steady stream of customers. Plus they keep my cards, and if someone asks wher they can find service, my card is handed to them. If some large volume seller wants to contract you, then you have to research the potential workload. If it is beyond you, then bite the bullet and decline the contract. If you are the Fender or Peavey or whoever service center in the area, you can take their referrals even if you don;t wan't all their business.

And as volume grows, you need to institute some triage. Diagnose things even if you can;t work on them right away. At least you can have a parts order going for them.

[jrfrond]

just been onto frondelli new york website dbm audio
impressive rates cheers for that Enzo

Though the rates look high, they are par for the course right smack in the middle of New York City, and reflect the high cost of doing business in the world's largest Metropolitan area. Our profit margin is essentially the same as any other comparable service center. Rates are determined by the local economy. Where we DO get screwed a bit is on warranty reimbursement rates. A few companies used to pay shop rate, but no more. The up side to all of this is our location draws the volume of repairs necessary to make up for the high monthly nut.

[Enzo]

Just to be clear, when I pointed out that my shop in Lansing, Michigan has rates half what JOhn's shop charges in the middle of New York, it was not in any way meant to be perjorative. Everything costs more there. And his rates are completely justified. I merely point it out to speak to whether $50 from an amp factory is good or bad - it all depends upon your situation. In my case it is close to my shop rates, but in John's case it is discount work. His decision to accept a lot of warranty work would have to be based in part upon that, and he may have a differnt conclusion there than I do here. I have a feeling I get a lot more space for my $600 a month rent than $600 a month of his rent gets him.


But in general, the days of warranty work being paid at an $18 per repair flat rate are thankfully history.


And the other side of that coin is that they all pretty much just pay you the hour regardless, they don't look over your repair with a fine toothed comb and ask why it didn;t take 4 minutes less to change out that reverb pan. If I claim it took an hour and a half to stick a new preamp tube in a Fender BLues Junior, Fender will reply, "NO, it didn;t." But for the most part, if I crack it open, they pay me the whole hour. SO for exampe, when I get a Bugera head that is dead, I know it will be a matter of removing the chassis, flipping it over, freeing the AC Mains connector card, resoldering one of the inrush limiter thermistors, and reassembling the thing. Usually that is all that is wrong. A quick functional check, maybe squirt some control cleaner, and I am done. OH, and if that hard-wired Molex thing has not already been done at the factory, I can do that too for additional labor. 10 minutes, and they pay $50. That makes up for a lot of repairs that might be marginal pay.

Last time I checked, MArshall had some sort of major/minor thing going, but major repair pretty much meant anything involving solder, so most repairs were major. Since they went to online claims I don't recall major/monir being a question, come to think of it.