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JCM800 blowing 0.5A HT fuse - could use some help please

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  • JCM800 blowing 0.5A HT fuse - could use some help please

    hi guys,

    I've been an amateur amp tech for several years now and can usually diagnose and resolve common issues, but have reached a conclusion about a JCM800 I have that I'd like some feedback on before I start buying parts.

    This is a 1988 JCM800 4010 50W combo with EL34 output tubes. It's a Canadian version with two 0.5A HT fuses in the power supply (between the PT and the two sets of rectifier diodes instead of a single one after them). I don't know if that was common to the Canadian version or all models in '88.

    Some observations:

    1. The amp blows the HF fuses when powered up with a full tube compliment and speaker connected.

    2. I can run it without the power tubes (and all other tubes installed) and the HT fuses do not blow. I measure ~483VDC on pin 3 (plate) of both output tube sockets in this case.

    3. With my 40W light-bulb current limiter in series with the amp (where the bulb glows dimly), I can power it up with all tubes and without the HF fuses blowing. I can also play through it and get some signal through to the speaker... sounds about like a 2W amp. The plate voltage on the EL34s is ~293VDC in this case, no doubt because of the limited current, but the amp works and all controls seem to function normally... it's just way quieter.

    4. Removing the current limiter after trying #3 immediately blew both HF fuses (as in #1 above).

    5. Another set of power tubes has the same result.

    So... since everything seems fine when the current is limited to the amp, but fuses blow when not, I'm thinking my Power Transformer is dying. But I'm not clear exactly what the failure mode is for the PT here... if it was a short in the PT the mains fuse should blow immediately. So what's going on?

    What do you think?

    Thanks fellas!

  • #2
    With no power tubes, what is the DC voltage on lugs 5 of the two power tube sockets?
    Sounds like you might have a bad component in the bias supply or a bad solder joint or bias supply short... maybe even right on the socket... etc.
    Bruce

    Mission Amps
    Denver, CO. 80022
    www.missionamps.com
    303-955-2412

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Bruce.

      Hmmm... I'm not sure about my observation #2 above at this point, because when I turned it on this time one of the HF fuses blew without the power tubes and without the current limiter in the loop.

      With the current limiter in the loop (and no power tubes), I measure:

      430VDC on pins 3 (plate)
      -36VDC on pins 5 (control grid)


      (BTW, I bought some parts from you several years ago for my first amp build, a 5E3 clone - thanks!)

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmm.... looking at this again, for the HT-fuse to blow it has to be a short or problem in the circuit AFTER the HT-fuse, and not in the PT itself... right? So the PT is likely OK?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by valcotone View Post
          Hmm.... looking at this again, for the HT-fuse to blow it has to be a short or problem in the circuit AFTER the HT-fuse, and not in the PT itself... right? So the PT is likely OK?
          Correct.

          Does this amp have the original filter caps? If so, due to the age of the amp I'd change those out before proceeding any further. Filter caps don't have to have any sort of visual indication (i.e. bulging, leaking or otherwise) to be bad.
          Jon Wilder
          Wilder Amplification

          Originally posted by m-fine
          I don't know about you, but I find it a LOT easier to change a capacitor than to actually learn how to play well
          Originally posted by JoeM
          I doubt if any of my favorite players even own a soldering iron.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wilder Amplification View Post
            Correct.

            Does this amp have the original filter caps? If so, due to the age of the amp I'd change those out before proceeding any further. Filter caps don't have to have any sort of visual indication (i.e. bulging, leaking or otherwise) to be bad.

            hi, Thanks for the reply. It does have the original caps. I just ordered a set of 3 50+50 F&T caps from the Tube Store. I'll install them (in 1-2 weeks) and check the results. Stay tuned...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by valcotone View Post
              hi, Thanks for the reply. It does have the original caps. I just ordered a set of 3 50+50 F&T caps from the Tube Store. I'll install them (in 1-2 weeks) and check the results. Stay tuned...
              Excellent. Let us know how everything turns out.

              You may also wanna consider changing out the two in the bias supply (they're the 10uF caps on the circuit board near the bias pot). They don't sustain nearly the load of the main supply filter caps but they're cheap enough to justify replacing them for some extra insurance.
              Jon Wilder
              Wilder Amplification

              Originally posted by m-fine
              I don't know about you, but I find it a LOT easier to change a capacitor than to actually learn how to play well
              Originally posted by JoeM
              I doubt if any of my favorite players even own a soldering iron.

              Comment


              • #8
                I second the call for new caps, apparently something is drawing current wildly causing the fuse to blow and if you remove the tubes and it keeps on blowing its usually one of the caps surging...

                just my 2c

                PS: F+T is a great choice
                I can fix everything, where is the duct tape?

                Comment


                • #9
                  hi Bluesfreak - Thanks for the support. Glad you like the F&T caps. It was between those or the JJs and I had to pick one! I'll post back after I swap the caps (I'll do the 10uF as well, thanks Wilder).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by valcotone View Post
                    hi Bluesfreak - Thanks for the support. Glad you like the F&T caps. It was between those or the JJs and I had to pick one! I'll post back after I swap the caps (I'll do the 10uF as well, thanks Wilder).

                    I prefer the F & T's as well

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Plus they are the right colour for a Marshall!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hmmm... tonight I replaced the 3 main filter caps with 50+50uF F&T caps, but the 0.5A HT fuses are still blowing. It seems to behave exactly the same as before so I don't think the filter caps were the culprit - it was definitely worth ruling them out.

                        I did not replace the two 10uF caps in the bias circuit yet.

                        Thoughts?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Are you using SLOW BLOW 500ma fuses? Regular fast blows will pop in a heartbeat.
                          Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                            Are you using SLOW BLOW 500ma fuses? Regular fast blows will pop in a heartbeat.

                            Enzo, I'm using fast-blow 0.5A HT fuses... I thought that's what I needed?

                            [Update] I replaced the HT fuses with 0.5A SLOW BLOW and the amp powers up just fine. Seems to get to an expected volume.... damn, I can't believe this!!! I'll test it out tomorrow at full volume and report back...
                            Last edited by valcotone; 04-15-2010, 06:34 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by valcotone View Post
                              Hmmm... tonight I replaced the 3 main filter caps with 50+50uF F&T caps, but the 0.5A HT fuses are still blowing. It seems to behave exactly the same as before so I don't think the filter caps were the culprit - it was definitely worth ruling them out.

                              I did not replace the two 10uF caps in the bias circuit yet.

                              Thoughts?
                              Well regardless, due to the amp's age they definitely needed replacing and at least you now have the peace of mind knowing that the amp just underwent a cap job.
                              Jon Wilder
                              Wilder Amplification

                              Originally posted by m-fine
                              I don't know about you, but I find it a LOT easier to change a capacitor than to actually learn how to play well
                              Originally posted by JoeM
                              I doubt if any of my favorite players even own a soldering iron.

                              Comment

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