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Fender Bassman SP3100 "moaning"

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  • Fender Bassman SP3100 "moaning"

    Hi everyone! I would like to ask for your help.

    I have a Fender Bassman SP3100 Solid State amp which I use with a passive MM copy bass.

    However not so long ago it started to work funny, (I have bought this new bass, which has a fairly bigger signal, than the previous JB type, not that great however to blow the amp) and from week to week it becomes worse. Here's what it does:
    If I play on the bass (volume max, passive pickup) but more notably when I turn my Woolly Mammoth clone on (same volume as the dry signal) it starts to moan under my bass sound. Like 5 notes (or an octave and 5 notes) below the original sound. Not if I turn the bass' volume pot down, however it have never done this before... Even with loud signal it was OK. What do you think, what can be the problem?
    And it does this more and more often...

    Also sometimes I tried to use it with a looper pedal (bass->Loop Station->Bassman) and played a bass riff, then loop it and play a bass solo on top of it. But most of the time the whole thing ended up in the drop of the volume level (it became some half the volume than it was before.) So I thought it's not healthy and stopped doing that. But maybe this info can be helpful.

    The transistors are two 2n3055-s and I think they have to do something with it, but I don't know.

    Also the previous owner used it as an organ amp and made a few modifications on it. I think the preamp stage is still in its original condition, however I have to take a closer look at it. It worked well for a long time, even with bass.

    I saw in another thread that you said that the output transistors could be changed to MJ15024 or MJ15003 What would change if I would replace them? (It's actually a different question, regardless of what the real problem is. )

    Sorry for the loads of questions!
    Last edited by tboy; 10-21-2010, 10:34 PM.

  • #2
    Ghost notes like the ones that you are describing are sometimes a symptom of ripple in the power supply. Are the filter caps in your amp still the original ones? These are the two 4000uF caps. I believe that the original ones are large aluminum cans with black cardboard covers on them.

    Replacing the output transistors with the newer versions will not really make much difference. They may have a better high frequency response, but this is out of the frequency range of the design of the amp anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, the two big 4000uF caps are there (hard to miss them... ) although I don't know whether they are the originals, or not. They look like originals. Two huge aluminium cans with "General Electric" and 072454 written on them. And some other numbers.
      However it made me worry. I have never looked inside the case (I have never had to) and as I see the whole main board of the amp is rebuilt. I haven't check it yet, but I hope that it was REbuilt, not CHANGED to a different amp... :\ That would really make me sad.
      It sounds great though (not counting the ghost-note-factor) but if it's not WYSIWYG... But maybe I'm mistaken. :P

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      • #4
        Those early SS fenders don't have a reputation for sounding good....or lasting long. I wouldn't bother with it.....let it sit as a conversation piece. Get a "real" bass amp.....anything is better than those turds......
        The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

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        • #5
          Well, it might not be the world's most awesome amp. But if he was originally satisfied with it, until it stopped working, that's something you can fix, maybe very cheaply and easily.

          I would also suspect the two large can capacitors. They're electrolytic capacitors, which are known to dry up with age and stop working. They become suspect after 10 years, and the amp is what, 40 years old?

          You can temporarily solder some new 4700uF ones in parallel with them, and see if that makes the "moan" go away. Note that electrolytics have a voltage rating, the replacements should be rated the same or higher than the originals unless you want them to explode and make a huge mess. They also have positive and negative terminals that need to be connected the right way, or again they'll explode in a foul-smelling mess.

          If you don't know how to solder or shop for capacitors, you may find that it's cheaper to get another amp on Craigslist than pay a tech to do it...
          "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

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          • #6
            Actually I was satisfied with its sound, so I have no intention to buy a new amp (if I don't have to). And I don't really have the money to buy an amp right now (and another factor is that I live in Hungary, where amps, musical instruments, and basically everything are really expensive). This amp, however was free for me when I got it, so I'm still good.

            I would also suspect the two large can capacitors. They're electrolytic capacitors, which are known to dry up with age and stop working. They become suspect after 10 years, and the amp is what, 40 years old?

            You can temporarily solder some new 4700uF ones in parallel with them, and see if that makes the "moan" go away. Note that electrolytics have a voltage rating, the replacements should be rated the same or higher than the originals unless you want them to explode and make a huge mess. They also have positive and negative terminals that need to be connected the right way, or again they'll explode in a foul-smelling mess.
            Yes, I think you are right. I will buy two 4700uF caps as soon as I can. I am familiar with soldering, I make effects pedals as a hobby... Not the same stuff, but similar.
            So can I just solder two 4700uF caps parallel to the two 4000uF caps? That's a total of 8700uFs if I'm not mistaken, not counting that the old ones don't work properly. Wouldn't that change the INCREDIBLE ( ) sound of the amp?
            So you said "temporarily". What's the next step after that? (If the moan stopped.)

            Comment


            • #7
              If the temporary caps stop the problem, then that verifies that the old caps were not doing their job. At that point we would remove the old caps and discard them, then install the new caps permanently in their place.
              Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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              • #8
                Well, the next step is to pull out the old capacitors and throw them away, leaving just the new ones

                Bleh, simulposted
                "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

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                • #9
                  Hi!
                  Thank you all for the help, I have soldered new caps parallel to the old ones (however they are 10000uF ones) and it stopped acting weird.
                  So thanks again!

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