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Trace Elliot Boxer 30 Bass Amp - HUM!

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  • Trace Elliot Boxer 30 Bass Amp - HUM!

    Hi.

    I have one of the above bass amps. It's in excellent condition - barely marked - and also works really well. Except there's an intrusive hum...

    With no input (nothing plugged in - I understand the input socket 'shorts' when not in use), there is an audible, low-toned, hum even on minimum volume. With the volume turned up to max, it's very audible indeed. Obviously turning up the bass control adds to it, as does pressing the 'mid-shift' control.

    With a guitar plugged in, there's an additional, higher-pitched hum which is clearly now being picked up by the guitar itself - touching the metal bridge, for example, reduces it considerably. However, with the guitar's volume turned down to zero, the original hum is still there too.

    I'm fairly au-fait with a soldering iron, and also have a decent knowledge of what all the components do. As a start, I've had a good search for dry joints, with no luck. I have also replaced the 2 power supply smoothing caps with new ones of identical value - no improvement whatsoever.

    I've checked that the earth terminal of the mains supply is making good contact with the amp chassis, input socket 'earth' and everything else I think it should be. No luck.

    I'm in the UK, by the way, just in case mains-power conditions are different to wherever this forum is based - I'm guessing the good ol' US of A?

    There's a schematic available here: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/diy/allge...-boxers-98.pdf . Although my model has '98 date written on the PCB, it has only 4 pots - bass, mid, treb, and vol whereas it suggest in the above manual that there's a newer 5-pot version for this year. Ho hum.

    I'd really appreciate some thoughts on what to target next. Are there any obvious causes I should be looking at? I can replace any components no problem - I've had years of soldering practice - I just need to know where to 'go'...

    Many thanks!

  • #2
    Get on the B+ & B- rails & see if you can measure any undue Vac ripple.
    The same goes for the +15 & -15 supply.

    Comment


    • #3
      As the hum is increased with the tone controls I would assume the fault is in the preamp.
      After you check what Jazz P Bass suggested I would try replacing the three 220uF 25volt caps.C13, C21 & C23.
      These are supposed to smooth the 15v supply.
      It's quite common for the zeners to pack it in but as the amp is working I think they are not suspect.
      Have you got zero volts at Test Point 1 ?
      The preset PR1 adjusts this.
      I think the Ashdown Perfect 10 (30w version) is the modern equivalent with a line out/CD in jack. The schematic is very similar.

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      • #4
        Many thanks for your replies, folks - really appreciated.

        Jazz P, I guess I'd need an oscilloscope to detect ripple? Don't have one, I'm afraid - just a multi-meter, and that only goes as low as 200V on the AC scale...!

        Oc-d, yes, the zeners must be working ok as the amp works really well in every other respect - nice, loud and clean.

        TP1 was showing around 200mV and I managed to tweak this down to around 10, although the preset adjustment is pretty coarse. Made no difference - I'm guessing 200mV was within tolerance to start with?

        No problem swapping the caps you suggest - I just need to get hold of them. I'll report back when this is done.

        Thanks again

        Any other ideas - from anybody - always welcome!

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        • #5
          My model is clearly an earlier one to that shown in the above schematic - it has only 2 output transistors and no gain control. I don't suppose anyone has a link to the earlier diagram? I canny find it with a web surf...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Devs Ad View Post
            Jazz P, I guess I'd need an oscilloscope to detect ripple? Don't have one, I'm afraid - just a multi-meter, and that only goes as low as 200V on the AC scale...!

            Oc!
            You can get a cheapo meter at Radio Shack or Harbor Freight.

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            • #7
              Thanks, Jazz-P. Are you saying I can detect ripple with a cheap meter? I presume I'd use an AC volts scale? If so, how low would it have to be able to read?

              Cheers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Most any meter will measure the AC ripple.
                You indicated the meter that you have has a lowest setting of 200V.
                That is the range. 0-200Vac.
                There is no reason to suspect that the meter will not measure 2 volts of ripple.
                What I am leaning towards on the ripple check is verifying the health of the power rails.
                If the caps are bad you will be measuring volts of ripple.
                An awful lot of ripple can make the amp hum.
                In troubleshooting you have to verify & eliminate certain possibilities.

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                • #9
                  Thanks, Jazz-P. That sounds good, and I'll check it out. I was expecting 'ripple' to be in the order of millivolts! Oops...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When all is good, millivolts is ideal.
                    Not so much on the main power rails, they are doing a lot of work.
                    What you need to look for here is a marked difference between the + & -.
                    The IC + - rails are the ones that you would like to see millivolts.
                    I have had TE amps come through that hummed no matter what I did
                    (6 mv's)
                    What you need to do is measure the ripple (Vac) on the output.
                    Set your meter to read Vac & hook up the test leads to the speaker terminals.
                    Anything over 10 mv's is bad to the ear.

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                    • #11
                      Unfortunately my multimeter on AV volts range only goes to one decimal place, which I guess equates to 100mV. Needless to say, this didn't register when tried on the loudspeaker output even at full vol/bass and with very intrusive hum - very bad on the ear...

                      As a next step should I swap the three caps - C13, C21 & C23 - that 'oc disorder' suggests?

                      Ta.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Get a better meter.

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                        • #13
                          Ok, got me a better meter!

                          Ok, this will make bad reading... Set across speaker output on a 200mV AC scale, I got the following:

                          Vol at min - 2mV (Quiet, but still audible, background hum)
                          Vol at max with Bass at min - 7.8mV
                          Vol at max with Bass, Mid and Treb also at max - 109mV!!! (The Bass control basically did all the difference)
                          Ditto with mid-shift button also on - 163mV
                          Turning the Treble down to min increased this to my max recorded reading of 195mV. Yes, the hum was audible...

                          Can you talk me through the next steps to take, please?

                          Ta muchly.

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