Ampeg V4: "should I do it" opinions

[RutherfordBrave]

I have had two interests lately, both of which I'm trying to keep in check in terms of time and money. The first of these is to have a project amp or two to work on, and the second is to acquire an Ampeg V4 in decent condition. Being cheap, I recently picked up a couple of amps in working order that have needed cap jobs, grounded cords, etc. I'm close to being finished with the first of those, of which I have a total of $200 into including original purchase price and replacement parts. Considering the cosmetic shape that the amp is in, it's not going to win beauty contests or fetch a large price once fixed, despite its relative obscurity.

That said, I have someone interested in trading a late 70's V4 in non-working condition for this amp. It apparently powers on but has no output...which makes me a bit scared about it having a dead OT. For those of you with experience on such Ampegs, how much can I expect to spend refurbishing one of these (NOT including potentially bad transformers or tubes)? I know fliptops is the place for transformers and the like, but I don't want to get in over my head too quickly. Everything looks untouched, for better or worse, and it's in about 7/10 condition cosmetically. My tech experience has been mostly general maintenance so far, and this might require some learning on my part depending on the issues.

Ultimately this would be a more valuable (and personally useful) amp to have in my collection. However, if I can just do basic maintenance on a $600 working amp vs put another $400 into this one (for a $600 total investment), then it just doesn't make sense. Opinions?

[Diablo]

I restored my V4 to original condition. In order to do that I chose electrolytic multi-cap cans for replacement. Those were much more expensive than typical axial e-caps. I believe I spent around $140 for the e-caps. I probably spent another $60 to replace all the resistors and caps. I likely didn't need to replace all the caps and resistors, but I was a novice and just took the shotgun approach. I didn't need to replace any tubes, but I bought plenty of NOS spares to have on hand for the future. There's really only one tube that is a little hard to find - that's the compactron 6K11. But, it is out there. V4s don't have a lot of resale value, so it's only worth fixing up if you want to use it. Hopefully, you don't need transformers. V4s have very stout transformers, so it's a good bet that the transformers are fine. Perhaps you can test them before you start rebuilding.

[nashvillebill]

The dead amp you are considering--is it the version with the master volume?? (I can't tell from the picture) If so, it is not anywhere near as desirable as the first editions of the V4 which had no master volume (only Channel One and Channel 2 volume) . The earliest version had toggle switches instead of rocker switches for power, polarity, and standby. Then they went to the rocker switch version which still had no master volume. Then the circuit design changed entirely and went to master volume, there may have even been a later version with a Distortion knob.

[Prairie Dawg]

I just got finished with a complete overhaul of an Ampeg V4B that had never had any maintenance at all-ever. Including a full suite of tubes, electrolytics, power cord, and so on it was about $250 or so in parts. Having said that they are good amps, simple, easy to work on and stupid loud. Great guitar amps even if they're bass amps too.

Anvil. Locomotive. Sledge hammer. Detroit Diesel. Browning M2 .50 cal. Kenworth. Ampeg V4B.

[RutherfordBrave]

The dead amp you are considering--is it the version with the master volume?? (I can't tell from the picture) If so, it is not anywhere near as desirable as the first editions of the V4 which had no master volume (only Channel One and Channel 2 volume) . The earliest version had toggle switches instead of rocker switches for power, polarity, and standby. Then they went to the rocker switch version which still had no master volume. Then the circuit design changed entirely and went to master volume, there may have even been a later version with a Distortion knob.

Yes, this is the master volume model, but no distortion. In ways that's a plus for me, since I live in a rowhouse and sadly can't justify turning up much while home. I do have an SB-12 for at home stuff, but it would still be nice to not have to relegate the V4 to a practice space only.

V4s don't have a lot of resale value, so it's only worth fixing up if you want to use it.

Seems like they're running about $5-600 in good condition, regardless of the model (this is as far as I can tell, and I've been watching them for the last few months). They can be found for about $400, but everyone over on talkbass is talking them up too much...seems to be driving prices stupid high. I think I would be willing to put $250 into it, which would make putting a new OT in it a dealbreaker. Haven't had to troubleshoot transformers before -- how difficult/straightforward is it to do?

[52 Bill]

...which would make putting a new OT in it a dealbreaker. Haven't had to troubleshoot transformers before -- how difficult/straightforward is it to do?

Why do you feel that the OT is bad? In the realm of repairs no sound hardly means bad output transformer. In fact in most cases when an output transformer fails it will short causing blown fuses or it will cause the signal to distort or it will cause a loss of power. It can cause a no sound problem, but if I were you I wouldn't go in thinking the worst until you prove that it's bad.

If you want the amp go for it.

[MikeH]

I've been working on amps for about 7 years now, and I have a 70's v4 myself. If you're looking for an amp to learn on, I wouldn't suggest ANY old ampeg. They aren't exactly user friendly to work on. The insides are usually a crazy mess; they were definitely not concerned with organized lead dress back then. Even the chassis is a pain in the ass to remove to work on the amp. The chassis is too heavy and unbalanced to fit on either of my cradles, and it's attached to these rubber shock absorber thingies and wont stand on it's own unless you totally disassemble it. And as someone already said, parts are crazy expensive. A real pain in the ass to deal with. I may be biased, as I've had a hell of a time dealing with mine...

I love my v4, but I hate working on my it so much, I'd almost rather pay someone else to do it. Almost.

If you're looking for a good amp to learn on that's dirt cheap, you can't beat an old silverface fender. They are abundant, easy to work on, and frequenty broken.

[Prairie Dawg]

awww jeez....the V4B is not that bad to deal with, takes a little muscle is all. I don't know about messing with the tone shaping boards though...

My amp cradle is a maple board with two pine uprights, I drill holes where I need em and it fits anything. If it breaks, down to Home Despot I go for more.

[RutherfordBrave]

I've been working on amps for about 7 years now, and I have a 70's v4 myself. If you're looking for an amp to learn on, I wouldn't suggest ANY old ampeg. They aren't exactly user friendly to work on. The insides are usually a crazy mess; they were definitely not concerned with organized lead dress back then. Even the chassis is a pain in the ass to remove to work on the amp. The chassis is too heavy and unbalanced to fit on either of my cradles, and it's attached to these rubber shock absorber thingies and wont stand on it's own unless you totally disassemble it. And as someone already said, parts are crazy expensive. A real pain in the ass to deal with. I may be biased, as I've had a hell of a time dealing with mine...

I love my v4, but I hate working on my it so much, I'd almost rather pay someone else to do it. Almost.

If you're looking for a good amp to learn on that's dirt cheap, you can't beat an old silverface fender. They are abundant, easy to work on, and frequenty broken.

Yeah, I know the pains of amps like these... I'm working on a mid 60's Guild Thunderbird right now, which basically needs to be gutted in order to work on any of the reverse-mounted PCBs. Changing the elytics was a pain, but I just finished that last night. Problem now is that the amp is starting to sound pretty good (besides some weird oscillation issues...), and I'm questioning whether I should just wait for another V4 to pop up locally. I know I will probably never come across another Guild, however.

[Dave Curtis, dB AudioTech]

Actually, I find these heavy, old '70s V series amps a whole lot more tech-friendly than many other amps I've worked on. If you keep the backplate on that stabilizes those shock-mounted side plates; sits upright just fine by itself. I worked on a V2 once that didn't have the backplate, and promptly made one out of scrap baseboard molding. I like that you can pop off a couple of plates and get to both sides of the circuit boards without pulling them; that's a big time saver. I own a '74 VT-22 that does bass duty (as a head), and although it's mostly original (except all the T-funkin preamp tubes I could stuff in it) and way overdue for a cap job, it sounds very nice indeed.

BTW, a 6Q11 is the same as a 6K11.

[g1]

Actually, I find these heavy, old '70s V series amps a whole lot more tech-friendly than many other amps I've worked on. ... it sounds very nice indeed

Shsh! Prices are climbing! These horrible heavy monsters with their obsolete tubes, overkill transformers, and crazy shock-mount chassis (with removable access panels) and bias circuit from hades should be put in the dumpster (let me know where), or sold for $50 to people like me .

[RutherfordBrave]

Shsh! Prices are climbing! These horrible heavy monsters with their obsolete tubes, overkill transformers, and crazy shock-mount chassis (with removable access panels) and bias circuit from hades should be put in the dumpster (let me know where), or sold for $50 to people like me .

Well, I ended up passing on this one so I can go one project at a time. Someone else paid the guy $300 for it, which could have been a great deal depending on what needed to be done. Mine will come, and I'll be back here when I need advice

[Ronsonic]

I own and repair a lot of old Ampeg stuff. They are a bit of a pain, especially recapping, it just ain't as easy as an old Fender.

The rule, rebuild the bias supply, it is marginal. That cap that taps off the power tranny secondary must be replaced.

I sorta stand it on the mounting rails with a book under the tranny to stabilize.

A lot of cleaning is usually needed.

[RutherfordBrave]

Just a heads up, this amp is the V4 I was going to trade for last week. It is NOT in working condition, and the new owner is lying about not knowing the condition that it's in... He paid $300 for it, and apparently thinks flipping it on ebay to some unsuspecting new owner is a good thing to do. Caveat emptor!