Question for Enzo

[daz]

I know you repair a lot of different amps and have repair station status for peavey and fender if i recall. So i thought you might be the person that could answer this. If you were to buy a few dozen SS amps in the Under $300 range that are "field repairable" as i think they call it, and are as or more reliable at louder volumes (due to component failure) than typical cheap ss amps, what would you look at? I realize those requirements are pretty much impossible to find today, but what comes closest? Board mounted and unreliable pots jacks that cause solder joints to fail are ok....thats to be expected. Just need something who's components can hold up under stress better than most and are repairable on a component level. Than you sir.

[tedmich]

Can't wait for Enzo's reply! Since you didn't PM him I have to ask, whats this for? Peace Corp guitar ambassadors need outfitting? Can we assume you need everything in a combo package?

[daz]

Can't wait for Enzo's reply! Since you didn't PM him I have to ask, whats this for? Peace Corp guitar ambassadors need outfitting? Can we assume you need everything in a combo package?

Well, lets just say it's for some kids who tend to crank them. And yes, combos.

[Steve Conner]

I bet he recommends the Peavey Bandit!

Also welcome back to the forum Daz.

[Enzo]

That is not an easy thing to answer honestly.

I do not buy and sell amps, so I really have no idea what goes for $300, and I assume you are looking used, not "new but defective." SO that clouds things further.

I like PV as a brand a lot, my favorite company. But that is for a bunch of reasons. First, is their commitment to customer satisfaction. They are the most customer friendly factory on the earth, in my view. There are other fine brands, but those guys will keep parts around for models 20 years old, most companies won;t. They are famous for their TL604 workaround. There was a popular IC in the 1980s, the TL604, and it was a very useful thing for channel selection or other signal routing. They used it in tons of models. Texas Instruments stopped making it. Most companies would say "Oh well" and that would be the end of it. PV designed a little board with a couple ICs on it and some long legs so it could be soldered in place of the original 8-leg IC. They didn;t have to do that, but they did, so thousands of customers could continue to use their old PV amps. You can call an inside technical guy at PV for repair assistance, they'll send a schematic to anyone, and they will sell parts to anyone

Beyond that, their gear has proven itself to be reliable on the road. I'd tour with it.

And I agree with Steve, I'd likely recommend their Bandit. The Bandit is really a series of models, but all the Bandits are of similar use. The later models use their "Transtube" circuitry in the preamp, which doesn't sound bad. It is the most popular guitar amplifier on earth. It is not overly expensive, not overly huge or overpowering, but it is a serious amp that can be used on real gigs.

But when looking at the overall PV line, they have a lot made in Mississippi, and in recent years, the Chinese plants. But the bottom line is that all the models tend to be made with the same engineering behind them, and using the same materials. So I have no reason to suspect a Backstage 40 would be any less reliable than a Bandit 65. Brands tend to be consistent within themselves.

But as much as I like PV amps, there are other fine brands. Fender makes nice amps. They have good support, but they are way more likely to direct you to a local service center than deal with you direct. On the other hands ther are brands like Line 6, who will not send you soo much as a jack or any service documentation unless you are one of their service centers. WHo need that?


ALL amps are "field repairable" in regards to us. The non field repairable thing is a matter of warranty coverage. When Fender says an amp is replace only, not field repairable. It doesn't mean the things can;t be fixed, it just means that Fender doesn't want to pay us to do so. It is cheaper for them to replace the unit than have us fix them under warranty. Now that status is usually only on entry level products - the cheap end of the line.


And it ain;t the parts it's the circuit. If you have two 100 watt amps, and one uses a pair of TIP142/147 and the other uses six of them, the first amp is more likely to blow up. It isn;t because the components are bad or shitty or weak. it is because not enough of them were used in the design. ANd if you are looking on the internet for relaible amps, keep in mind that the only people who write in to message boards about their amps are the people with problems, so really the most popular amps will generally be the most common complaints as well. In other words, problems are over-represented on the internet. AN example is the TDA7293 power amp IC that blows up on the Marshall amps all the time. Well, it DOESN:'T blow up all the time. WHat happens is that WHEN those amps blow up, that IC is usually where it happens, but MOST of those amps NEVER blow up. DOn;t lose sight of that.

Having said that, I think those TDA7293-based amps are more vulnerable to load problems than some transistor finals. SO if you have kids who mess around with their amps a lot, maybe those are not the best choice.

I don;t know if all that helps.

[daz]

Thanks, and yes, it helps. Maybe not a definitive answer but some useful thoughts. I DO realize some of those amps designated not field repairable ARE repairable, but what i was really trying to say is that i'd like to stay away from the amps that are more like board replaceable. The ones that use a chip and micro components and you basically just have to replace a entire board that ends up costing nearly what a new amp does. (and by the way, i'm talking new) So i want something that has removable resistors, caps, etc, not chips and those tiny rectangular micro components.

How are the newest bandits in regards to being, for lack of the correct terms, "component replaceable"? I recall working on them in the 90's b4 the transtube series and they were really built well compared to todays SS amps. I doubt they make em that well today, (who DOES!) but how good are they ? Thanks again.

That is not an easy thing to answer honestly.

I do not buy and sell amps, so I really have no idea what goes for $300, and I assume you are looking used, not "new but defective." SO that clouds things further.

I like PV as a brand a lot, my favorite company. But that is for a bunch of reasons. First, is their commitment to customer satisfaction. They are the most customer friendly factory on the earth, in my view. There are other fine brands, but those guys will keep parts around for models 20 years old, most companies won;t. They are famous for their TL604 workaround. There was a popular IC in the 1980s, the TL604, and it was a very useful thing for channel selection or other signal routing. They used it in tons of models. Texas Instruments stopped making it. Most companies would say "Oh well" and that would be the end of it. PV designed a little board with a couple ICs on it and some long legs so it could be soldered in place of the original 8-leg IC. They didn;t have to do that, but they did, so thousands of customers could continue to use their old PV amps. You can call an inside technical guy at PV for repair assistance, they'll send a schematic to anyone, and they will sell parts to anyone

Beyond that, their gear has proven itself to be reliable on the road. I'd tour with it.

And I agree with Steve, I'd likely recommend their Bandit. The Bandit is really a series of models, but all the Bandits are of similar use. The later models use their "Transtube" circuitry in the preamp, which doesn't sound bad. It is the most popular guitar amplifier on earth. It is not overly expensive, not overly huge or overpowering, but it is a serious amp that can be used on real gigs.

But when looking at the overall PV line, they have a lot made in Mississippi, and in recent years, the Chinese plants. But the bottom line is that all the models tend to be made with the same engineering behind them, and using the same materials. So I have no reason to suspect a Backstage 40 would be any less reliable than a Bandit 65. Brands tend to be consistent within themselves.

But as much as I like PV amps, there are other fine brands. Fender makes nice amps. They have good support, but they are way more likely to direct you to a local service center than deal with you direct. On the other hands ther are brands like Line 6, who will not send you soo much as a jack or any service documentation unless you are one of their service centers. WHo need that?


ALL amps are "field repairable" in regards to us. The non field repairable thing is a matter of warranty coverage. When Fender says an amp is replace only, not field repairable. It doesn't mean the things can;t be fixed, it just means that Fender doesn't want to pay us to do so. It is cheaper for them to replace the unit than have us fix them under warranty. Now that status is usually only on entry level products - the cheap end of the line.


And it ain;t the parts it's the circuit. If you have two 100 watt amps, and one uses a pair of TIP142/147 and the other uses six of them, the first amp is more likely to blow up. It isn;t because the components are bad or shitty or weak. it is because not enough of them were used in the design. ANd if you are looking on the internet for relaible amps, keep in mind that the only people who write in to message boards about their amps are the people with problems, so really the most popular amps will generally be the most common complaints as well. In other words, problems are over-represented on the internet. AN example is the TDA7293 power amp IC that blows up on the Marshall amps all the time. Well, it DOESN:'T blow up all the time. WHat happens is that WHEN those amps blow up, that IC is usually where it happens, but MOST of those amps NEVER blow up. DOn;t lose sight of that.

Having said that, I think those TDA7293-based amps are more vulnerable to load problems than some transistor finals. SO if you have kids who mess around with their amps a lot, maybe those are not the best choice.

I don;t know if all that helps.

[Enzo]

I think you are laboring under some misconceptions. In the guitar amp service world, we don;t replace boards, we fix them. Amateurs replace whole boards. The only time I'd replace a board would be if the old one was so burnt to charcoal that I had no place to mount parts. If it is just a hole, I can wire around that. The boards we replace complete are mostly just little DSP reverb cards. Those Marshall TDA7293s I mentioned? The IC is on a small board with a handful of tiny caps. SOme guys replace that whole board, but I never do. I just solder a new IC onto the old board and it is good as new. If a trace burnt off the old board, I fix it with a wire. But that "board" is small, two of them fit on a business card.

If you mean surface mount, the tiny little rectangle parts that have no wire leads out the end, well we replace those parts too. They may be tiny, and you may have to adapt and learn new techniques, but they are not less well made for being manufactured with this type of component. That is what is inside your cell phone, and those seem to work.

Transtube preamps are made with individual transistors instead of integrated circuits. Otherwise they are made like anything else.

If you are not going to learn how to work on surface mount boards, then you will be limiting your self. If in doubt, order the schematic for any amp you are thinking about and look at the layout. You can easily tell if it is surface mount or "through-hole" construction.

[daz]

trust me, i know all the tricks for fixing traces and all that kinda stuff. What i mean when i talk about replacing boards are in amps where they are mostly a chip that does the majority of the work and a few micro components. I'm not talking about replacing boards because of some burn issue or bad traces. I've done more than my share of that. But today the amps are starting to evolve down that road to modularity where you just replace a board when something goes bad. Hell, i can't even see the damn components even with a good magnifier/light. Some of them are going digital to the point they are just not repairable, at least not for me. In any case, i don't want to get into a debate about this. I'm just trying to find an amp thats mainly "old style" analog construction with normal resistors and caps, transistors, IC's etc that can be replaced w/o needing a microscope to see whats there.

I think you are laboring under some misconceptions. In the guitar amp service world, we don;t replace boards, we fix them. Amateurs replace whole boards. The only time I'd replace a board would be if the old one was so burnt to charcoal that I had no place to mount parts. If it is just a hole, I can wire around that. The boards we replace complete are mostly just little DSP reverb cards. Those Marshall TDA7293s I mentioned? The IC is on a small board with a handful of tiny caps. SOme guys replace that whole board, but I never do. I just solder a new IC onto the old board and it is good as new. If a trace burnt off the old board, I fix it with a wire. But that "board" is small, two of them fit on a business card.

If you mean surface mount, the tiny little rectangle parts that have no wire leads out the end, well we replace those parts too. They may be tiny, and you may have to adapt and learn new techniques, but they are not less well made for being manufactured with this type of component. That is what is inside your cell phone, and those seem to work.

Transtube preamps are made with individual transistors instead of integrated circuits. Otherwise they are made like anything else.

If you are not going to learn how to work on surface mount boards, then you will be limiting your self. If in doubt, order the schematic for any amp you are thinking about and look at the layout. You can easily tell if it is surface mount or "through-hole" construction.

[Steve Conner]

ANd if you are looking on the internet for relaible amps, keep in mind that the only people who write in to message boards about their amps are the people with problems, so really the most popular amps will generally be the most common complaints as well.

Thanks for that nugget of wisdom! I had some thoughts along that line, but never took it to its logical conclusion, that a more popular brand could seem less reliable than one that nobody buys, just by being more popular.

I'm just trying to find an amp thats mainly "old style" analog construction with normal resistors and caps, transistors, IC's etc that can be replaced w/o needing a microscope

The Transtube Bandit is probably quite a good bet, I guess! As Enzo points out, it is an analog circuit made with ordinary transistors. As far as I know, it has no digital effects or DSP of any kind.

I hate surface mount components, but I have to deal with them, it's my job. We recently bought a pair of Weller WTA50 heated tweezers, and with these you can just grab small 2-lead surface mount parts and whisk them off the board. They seem to work fine with our existing Weller power units, too.

[Enzo]

Yes, I hate surface mount too, but it is a fact of life. I hate rap music, but the people involved in it are serious about it and sincere, so I do my best to help them. I do my best to service surface mount circuitry.

If all you had was a plumbers torch, soldering on through hole circuit boards would be a serious challenge. Likewise using big clunky soldering irons on surface mount is a challenge. it is a matter of getting appropriate equipment and learning how to use it.

I can't play the banjo, but I bet I cold learn.



I remember once I had three Fender Hot Rod DeVilles lined up in the repair queue and a single Vox Cambridge 30. A customer came in and saw that and immediately said, "Wow, those Fenders must not be as reliable as the Vox's, huh?" I told him that there were untold thousands of the DeVilles out there working just fine. And the music store across the street bought five of that Vox model and every one of the five needed service right out of the box. So that three to one ratio in the repair bin says nothing useful.

[Chuck H]

I used to call my old Bandit "the wrecking ball" because of all the busted door frames it left in it's wake swinging around at the end of my arm. I dropped it down the stairs, twice. It never even got a loose part in all the time I used/abused it. Peavey, as a company, still seems to operate with similar ideologies as they ever had. It seems the "Vintage" amps are very reliable. I would be inclined to trust a Bandit or Transtube. I don't know the reliability of the 5150/6505 amps. There's an awful lot of them out there. They've been making them for almost twenty years. So the fact that they come up often in repair discussion isn't surprising.