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Fender DSR 135W smoking......

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  • Fender DSR 135W smoking......

    First of all I'd like to introduce myself as a new member of the forum. Although a 15+ years El. Eng. (and a 25+ years guitar player) I'm working with tube amps only for the last couple of years. So I would like to share one issue that I came accross....

    I bought an all-original 135W 1978 Fender DSR that I found in a really nice price (that was actually a steal) and it came with the original 15'' JBLs in an almost MINT condition so I felt I could'nt resist. The previous owner used it barely 15 years ago...

    After I picked the amp, for the first 2 times that i turned it on, it worked (though sounding very weak) however the next time I tried to turn it on it started bringing down the mains automatic fuse, sometimes with a flash between the lugs of the power-on switch!!!! I decided that I should go through a thorough inspection and that's what i did, replacing also the filter caps. Then I started charging the new caps (everything seemed to work fine) with a Variac at 80 volts (I live in Europe) and left. After 15 minutes i turned back just to realize that the room was full of smoke and the chassis close to the PT was very hot.

    Turned everything off, did a new isnpection just to realize that the cable going from the electrolytics to the two 100K resistors (after the rectification bridge) was barely holding - actually the minute i touched the wire it fell off the terminal strip - that was actually an open circuit!! The big cement 20W 30K resistor was also way too off (around 2,5MOhm!!!) and when I tried to remove the terminal strip, it broke in half.

    I changed the resistors (both 100K and the 20W) and installed new terminal strip. Then I checked the fuse just to find that it was an old slo blo with the wire forced to stay in place (someone did obviously a horrible job - that also misleaded me because a correct fuse would blow and indicate directly a short circuit). I changed the fuse and I tried to power on but....nothing. The new fuse was blown. I tried with another PT that I had spare (for 135W fender) and same thing happened. I went all the way through the power line and rectification and found that the two of the four diodes at the rectification bridge where shorted ...so that was the main problem.

    Changed the diodes (all four) with new ones and with the new PT, checked the voltages and everything seems to work fine now. Next thing that i'm going to try is the old PT - if i'm lucky enough it will be working....and I will replace the power-on switch which still shows some malfunction (sometimes it does not power-up). However, since i'm fresh to tube amp maintenance and I may be missing something important here, any ideas or comments would be more than welcome.....
    89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
    74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

  • #2
    Always assume the fuse is wrong until you prove otherwise . Anything I get for repair (or pick up used) I try to remember to check for proper fuse before turning on. It's amazing how many are the wrong type or rating or not really fuses at all.
    Originally posted by Enzo
    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


    Comment


    • #3
      Don't turn on the amp anymore until the problem has been corrected. It may be damaged worse.
      Find and post the schematic here.
      If resistors are overheating there is probably another problem causing it. The resistors are a symptom of another problem.
      So you bought an amplifier that had been screwed around with, don't try to run it anymore until you find out what the real problems are.

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20h..._135_schem.pdf
        The farmer takes a wife, the barber takes a pole....

        Comment


        • #5
          Well...yes this is something that i learned now!!!
          89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
          74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

          Comment


          • #6
            The intermittant operation of the switch may indicate that it has been overstressed.
            Might want to look into a replacement.

            Comment


            • #7
              That's what i thought though today's dpdt switches (Carling and other brands) are bigger from the one that is on the amp (they are very close to the 1st output tube) so i have to do my research.....

              I also post some pics of the amp..The first is the old filter caps where this is probably the main reason for this mess. The second shows the power-on switch and the 3rd one is the initial chassis condition - it seems that all parts are original.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Mountain; 03-07-2012, 03:36 PM.
              89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
              74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

              Comment


              • #8
                Have you tried:
                Antique Electronic Supply

                Comment


                • #9
                  Your power switch does not look original to the amp. The original one was a S.P.S.T. just like the standby switch.

                  If the amp worked originally after you purchased it, the power supply diodes were fine at that time. There is no way for them to have already been bad and still have the amp work.

                  Unfortunately you did not find the real cause of the problem before you started changing parts, so you may never know what the real source of the meltdown was. At this point you just need to go through the entire amp and check and double check all of the basic elements for any signs of fatigue or stress and workmanship of the previous repairs.

                  What is that on the back panel where the ac socket is normally located?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    52 Bil thanks for the input.

                    Only parts initially changed before the meltdown were the filter caps (I would change them in any case). However the sad truth is that, as you mention, I did not find the real cause of the problem before changing parts and unfortunately after the meltdown it was not possible to operate the amp with the open circuit and the shorted diodes. It is also truth that the amp worked initially but i tried it for less than 1 min (it was really weak) so i cannot tell if the PT had a problem from the beggining (that may caused all the other problems). Probably best practice from the begginning would be to check the fuse and measure voltages. Now what i plan to do is exactly what you propose...go through the entire circuit and double check all basic parts.

                    The DPDT power switch is original for an export model (according to the schematic and as i've seen in other Fender amps here in Europe) as is the power selector switch (the part that you mention next to the ac socket).
                    89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
                    74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry, didn't realize that you were in Europe. So yes the D.P.S.T. would be correct for your standards.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When you said "it started bringing down the mains automatic fuse" did you mean the wall outlet's circuit breaker? That is a lot of current (7.5A @240V ?) so no wonder the power switch and wiring etc. got fried. It would be very fortunate if the PT survived. What is not clear is why the 30K20W burnt, it should only run at around 5W and it's failure may be unrelated to this event? Make sure all power supply caps and dropping resistors are ok.
                        Originally posted by Enzo
                        I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've got one of those oinkers on the bench right now that is getting retrogressed into an AB763 Twin Reverb....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            G-one yes, i mean the wall outlet's circuit breaker and that happened probably because of the bad fuse. What i believe that hapenned is that by the time i purchased it the 30k resistor was already gone and the center connection to the two 100k resistors was also loose so the PT couldn't see no load and no other path than the diodes and filter caps. Probably in the past it was blowing fuses and some "tech" decided to put a "permanent" fuse. When I started charging the new caps at low voltage I left it for 15 minutes till i came back discovering that it was smokin. By that time probably the diodes where shorted and gone.... and the power switch too. As you mention, i'll be very lucky if the PT survived. Things would be simple if I had checked the fuse at the beginning....
                            I will try it on Friday and i will check the droping resistors as you propose (I already checked caps ahd they are ok)and I will let you know the results...
                            89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
                            74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Finally...PT is dead and gone. So, with the new PT, checked all resistors, replaced power-on switch and screen resistors, checked all voltages (all in the 10% tolerance) and...ready to go. Already did a 5-hour gig - the DSR is used by our bass player and the 15'' JBLs sound AMAZING!!!

                              Lesson learned: always check the fuse first!!!!!
                              Attached Files
                              89 Fender str. plus deluxe, 96 LP Studio, 07 Fender Tele Baja, 09 Gibson Firebird, NRP VS Tricone, NRP El Trovador, Martin HD28VS, 46 Gibson LG-2
                              74 Twin Reverb, 74 Super Reverb, 78 Dual Showman Reverb, Roccaforte HG100, Valvestate VS100, Crate Acoustic

                              Comment

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