Pulled Coupling Caps

[Chuck H]

I'd attribute the "loss of highs" to ear fatigue without a doubt. Not only from what's coming out of the amp, but cymbals, screaming vocal monitors, howling crowds. Also alcohol - just one drink will make a change. It's an anesthetic.

+++

If you gig with a rock band it shouldn't take long to realize this is true. But you need to be conscious and paying attention. Most guitar players don't qualify.

While doing amp demos for Ronnie Montrose one day at Dean Markley's house (wait... Let me pick those names up. It seems I dropped them) we all realized after about two hours of tweaking the circuit and playing that we needed a break to let our ears rest. All of us being seasoned veterans. Most of those "high end loss" complaints must come from kids with 100W heads playing metal.

[Steve Conner]

I have my EVM12L in a closed back cabinet, so I don't get to perform the touch test. Given the size of the magnet and the large vent hole, I would be surprised if it got hot at 60 watts input.

The one that gets hottest is probably the Beta 8.

[J M Fahey]

+++

If you gig with a rock band it shouldn't take long to realize this is true. But you need to be conscious and paying attention. Most guitar players don't qualify.

While doing amp demos for Ronnie Montrose one day at Dean Markley's house (wait... Let me pick those names up. It seems I dropped them) we all realized after about two hours of tweaking the circuit and playing that we needed a break to let our ears rest. All of us being seasoned veterans. Most of those "high end loss" complaints must come from kids with 100W heads playing metal.

Fully agree.

There's 2 "getting tired" organs there.

First is your ear, of course, but also the brain.

When trying to detect *minute* tonal differences, probably 1 dB or less (that's what 20% parts tolerance variation implies) , the brain works *hard* trying to amplify such detail.

It's very tiring.

I have worked for a long time with "our" local Guitar Gods and on any tweaking session, exactly what you describe happens: after 1 or 2 hours (at most), we all become dull and unreliable and can't separate any more the sound from the 5th try from the 34th or whatever.

I can very well picture our friend dumbassbob playing, say, the same chord from a Doors song or whetever he uses as reference time and again, for marathonic sessions, and comparing it with a *remembered* sound, probably a 30 years old memory.

And saying/thinking all the time, "this is not the real deal .... this is not the real deal .... this is not the real deal .... "

I *understand* that after so much frustration, there may be a strong temptation to fall for somebody .... anybody ... who can offer to supply that Mojo, or recreate that 30 years old sound you have in your mind.

Well, that's *impossible*.

If dumbassbob can never ever be absolutely certain about minute sound details buried so far away in the past (nobody can), much less GW or anybody who never was there to begin with !!!

The only *realistic* goal is to leave it exactly like the schematic, and call it a day.

And if sound seems not to be the same as the original one, well, the memory is flawed, not the amp.

Sorry.

[Justin Thomas]

Sometimes if I think one of my amps is losing something, I'll clean my ears first; if that doesn't help, I leave it alone for a while and pick up another one for a bit. When I come back, it's just as I remembered it. I'm starting to think my forty-odd year old amps are more consistent than I am. If I just don't play for a few days, no TV, no radio in the car, no other media consumption, they all sound wonderful and distinctive. I know my perceptions change! The ones that sound dull even after this test get sold off to someone who loves them. Of course, I still have 7 amps from Champ to Super Twin...

Justin

Edit: 7 <working> amps...

[Leo_Gnardo]

There's 2 "getting tired" organs there.

First is your ear, of course, but also the brain.

That yes, and all the rest. There's presbycusis, loss of hearing with age part of which is "permanent threshold shift" AKA deefness, and temporary threshold shift which can set in almost instantly and definitely over the course of an hour. AND they add up. TTS is kind of like having a limiter with a very very long decay... sometimes days. When we were young our ears used to ring & whistle, not so much when older but their acuity is being hammered down nonetheless. I give my ears lots of rest between guitar sessions, use earplugs or "shooters muffs" when operating motorized tools & yard equipment, also lucky I have a quiet place and can turn down the radio etc. Still get noticeable TTS after as little as 5 minutes hi volume playing.

C'mon DAB, waiting on the "bob formerly dumbass gets his bandmaster groove back" thread.

[Chuck H]

I'd probably want to attempt repair on amps losing their tone from age. But the point gets across. I especially like the comment that the amps are more consistent than the perception. That may be IT in a nutshell.

[km6xz]

I see there are some converts. When I wrote about these concepts there was no shortage of people claiming they had ultra precision memory and could tell instantly whether the amp was the same or improved by sprinkling a bit of fairy dust about, 6 months after hearing it last.
Ear fatigue is real and starts impacting sessions or performances minutes into it if the volume and distortion(both wave form and time domain) high.
Personally I see nothing wrong with the thread, nor in DAB's trusting a sharke. Con men work on trust and are good at that. They do not work in the realm of fact or performance or that rational, they depend on faith, hope and trust to be manipulated. Very few people can detect it when it is happening in real time, and a wayback machine viewing events in the lives of some of the poster's who were so critical of DAB, we would find they were just as or more trusting and faithful to a dream or imagination, helped in no small part by the actions and words of a con man. It might be a salesman, a religious person, politician, a piss poor doctor or healer, or even a repair person who was claimed to have supernatural skills.
The thread helped expose a conman, blew a hole in several beliefs in mojo, and opened the suggestions that those with the talent to create interesting music are indeed talented and rare, and has no particular credit due to the equipment. Those who worked with creating albums that encourage millions of teens to pick up an instrument to be just like "xxx" or "yyyy" where easily derailed by the conmen and marketers who convinced millions more that a shiny new box would solve the problem. And that an additional shiny box with lights would solve the problem of the first one not solving the problem.
I will side with DAB on this one.....He got screwed due to being trusting and hopeful. Some never learn with only a $1300 mistake, he apparently has. He had a brush with hard reality a couple times on this journey but remember, he and everyone else is swimming in a sea of conmen, marketing, hucksters and manipulators of the first order. If you are made aware of something, in today's hyper connected world, it is because a conman or agenda was able to grab attention of a mass of people who are willing believers in myths. No article in the press, on TV, viral anything, is the truth, because the truth is much too complicated and nuanced to be conveyed in a sound bite or tweet.. The more "information" that becomes available, the more one has to rely on faith and hope. People are more gullible and easily swayed than ever before, precisely because of the sea of flimflam that one lives in that never would have had access to all those people at once before.

[JHow]

But, looking on the bright side, the sea of flim flam does occasionally allow us to land on forums like this where we can have our metaphorical faces slapped with the noodle of reality from people who actually do know what they are talking about. Net, I think we are better off, better informed.

[olddawg]

I don't know about you guys, but my favorite amps sound "slightly" different every time I play. There are lots of possible reasons: my state of mind (mood, fatigue, drugs, etc) temperature, humidity, air pressure, room conditions, set up situation, age of strings on my guitars, minute differences and settings on my pedal board, minute acoustic differences (like extra people in the room). I could go on for a while. Almost always no one else really notices. I always sound like me to them. We like to say tone is in the hands. Many featured guitarists will mark tape Xs on the stage for the best places to stand during a performance during sound checks. It doesn't always work because the acoustics change when the room fills up. I gave up on mojo a long time ago. I just like quality equipment working properly. The rest is up to me.

[J M Fahey]

That's the point !!
Endlessly tweaking, comparing actual sound (through worn ears) to a faint memory of some "golden age" sound, heard 30 or more years ago, is futile.
Not forgetting that, as you say, we should consider "influence" too, (specially in and around the late 60's Hollywood Bowl).

[olddawg]

That's the point !!
Endlessly tweaking, comparing actual sound (through worn ears) to a faint memory of some "golden age" sound, heard 30 or more years ago, is futile.
Not forgetting that, as you say, we should consider "influence" too, (specially in and around the late 60's Hollywood Bowl).

Yeah... You can pull up video of Hendrix using Strats through Marshall's or a Flying V through Dual Showman. He still sounds like Hendrix. If you listen to Santana at Woodstock he definitely sounds like Santa but he says they were "dreadful" solid state amps that he hated. The point is the mojo is in the talent of the artist. I have no doubt that amp sounded great with Hendrix playing through it.... Or anything else...

[Leo_Gnardo]

we should consider "influence" too, (specially in and around the late 60's Hollywood Bowl).

Don't worry Juan, the influenza epidemic continues to this day. Plus all those factors & more, olddawg, you're mighty right 'bout that.

Kasino amp for Carlos at Woodstock. Don't know exactly which model. Had that "pushed out" angle bend on the faceplate. What I've seen & heard on film & record, he got a hell of a tone out of that dreadful amp. Then again, he was "wrestling a snake" trying to play his guitar, by his own account, oops another influenza attack, he was treating with ma ma m m mma ma mescaline. Don't try this at home kids, or anywhere's else.

Say, who put the benzedrine in Missus Murphy's Ovaltine?

[Chuck H]

I don't know about you guys, but my favorite amps sound "slightly" different every time I play.

I STILL think my present amp sounds best on rainy days!!! Obviously this could be my perception, a change in the power grid altering wall voltage (I live in a small town and haven't tested for that) or even the humidity affecting the actual speakers and sound waves?!? Maybe all three things at the same time. Don't care. It's a fun little mystery.

[big_teee]

My 2204 Clone always sounds best when Someone Else is Playing it!

[olddawg]

I still remember my first "real" amp when I was still in HS in 1973. It was (if memory serves) a 1970 or 1971 Twin Reverb with Utah speakers. I used to dime it with an SG to get it to break up. It sounded the best just about 30 minutes before I blew the speakers out of it. Did that a couple of times. Yeah, I agree with the rainy day thing. I think it is sound properties of humid air. Foggy is even better.