Sveltana Wing-C tubes out of production

[km6xz]

Some of you working on high voltage amps or needing solid 6550s or KT88s should stock up on any spares your distributor has because Svetlana(the real one, not Sovtek/New Sensor), the longest operating producer of vacuum tubes, has halted production of glass tubes and is selling off little remaining stock. Some types are already out of stock.
From my experience, these have been the most reliable long lived tubes for larger amps with high anode voltages so we really have no viable choices left for demanding applications. I visited the factory here in St Petersburg yesterday and was told the news.
This is bad news on many fronts, here, they were the same price as the under performing ElectroHarmonix that I do not dare put into SVT's that I have to warranty.
Anyone making a robust 6550 or KT88?

[Enzo]

That is sad news.

[Diablo]

Bad news when any tube manufacturer quits. Did they give a reason they are going out of production?

[Enzo]

I'd wager a guess of lack of sales. When new Sensor bought the name rights for the USA, I have to think the "real" Svets that were coming into the USA via roundabout means were a fration of what they could have sold. And while we like to think of our dear tubes as a mighty market, it really is small potatoes, a real niche market, and to lose the majority of teh USA market, I have to think really hurts the bottom oine. I could be wrong.

[Steve Conner]

I agree, I think New Sensor put them out of business with sharp marketing. One more reason to switch to these new-fangled transistor things for new designs

[drewl]

I don't approve of their business model, but New Sensor would be smart to buy out the Winged C plant or at least the machinery and people so they could make "real" Svetlana's.

[g1]

China can make high quality stuff as well as cheap stuff. They will build to your price point. It is we the consumers who have asked for so much cheap junk so that is what they build.
But you can bet if someone gets them building high quality tubes they will be high price/limited production likely geared toward audiophiles.

[km6xz]

Svetlana is not going out of business, its 17 divisions include high power vacuum tubes used in transmitters, for industry and science. They are a force in that field, just like the Chinese are. That market is much larger than for the consumer receiving tubes used in tube guitar amps and a few stereos. They are also into IC production, medical and scientific laser systems, subsystems used in satellites, and specialized lighting. After dealing with them however, there is way too much hold over from the Soviet days. The general staff knows they will get their salary just as surely with or without any sales. They have no clue about marketing or even how to evaluate potential marketing partners. They have connected their marketing with outfits who were slicker and craftier and burned them each time. They knew more than anyone how to make good tubes but not being able to get to customers through flaky distributors prevented them from being profitable. Back in the 90s that opened a engineering office in California with the aim to produce tube products for high end hi-fi and sound production. They hired a well known tube guru in the hi-fi field, Eric Barbour, and made an effort to provide engineering support for manufacturers who wanted to use their tubes in new designs. As a result of that they came out with the only new tube design in many decades that peaked the interest of engineers, the 3CX300A1 which was a civilian audio optimized version of the GM-5 transmitter triode using in a high powered tank transmitter. It was a metal ceramic design like transmitter tubes and had 300 watts of plate dissipation and had plate impedance at recommended operating levels that was the same as 6 push-pull KT88s so off the shelf Hammond transformers could be used. I built an amp for a hi-end manufacture with a pair of the tubes. It was a wild looking design, because it was intended to impress an international Hi-Fi show in Japan but circuit wise it was simple and conventional, but the entire driver and power out section was submersed in a column filled with clear transformer oil for no pump or blower convection current cooling. I later build a bass amp that used a conventional fan. The show amp was a big hit so the manufacture requested a quote for supplying 1,000 of them. They got a good price, a bit under $100 and started working on a commercial product bases on my design. About the time a first installment of the production tubes was ordered, Svetlana, after not getting any company pick the tube for a new design, dropped production. They should have waited it out another 6-12 months because a dozen Japanese companies built prototypes patterned loosely around mine and wanted to go into production. Anyway, I bought 6 of the tubes, 4 for the stereo pair at the show and 2 for a bass amp. It used a common RF tube socket so no special hardware was needed other than cooling. It is smaller than a doorknob, or about 1/2 the size of an adult's fist, very rugged, was guaranteed for spec for 5,000 hours of continuous duty (CCS rating, steady state 300 watts of dissipation per tube without a break, as transmitter tubes are rated). A pair in a 300-600 watt amp would outlast the player and if a switching supply was used would weigh essentially what one SVT transformer would weigh. It was easy to design around, but did need a pretty wide drive voltage swing being a triode, and more rugged than most solid state amps. A lot of power in a tube only 2 inches in diameter and 3 inches tall.
Svetlana ended up signing a distribution contact with a company that was a direct competitor of theirs which really hurt sales. Next came a deal to sell glass tubes using New Sensor as the distributor who ended up doing little with them but taking their name from them in the world markets. After the dust settled, they signed another bad marketing and distribution deal with a company in England that did nothing to promote the products or even answer email order requests. I tied a dozen times to get them to answer an email over several years but never got any response. I wanted to distribute the tubes in Russia but since that company had sole rights I couldn't unless I bought the tubes from them. So, mismanagement of their main assets in the glass tube field burned them time after time.

Tubes...we get what we pay for with cheap tubes and a lot less than we pay for with "high-end" tweaker tubes which really are no different or possibly less quality in parameters that matter than the cheap one. Anyone who insists that the gold plated $200 12ax7s or 6L6s that are advertised in high end hi-fi magazines are better in any way is a fool. The same thing has happened in guitar amps but at a lower price that reflects the shallower pockets of musicians. But still fairy dust resistors, wire, cap, transformers and tubes are using the same marketing over substance technique.

I am sad to see Svetlana stop production because they were the last remaining tube company in the world who had the technical background, original research and quality control to produce good tubes. Every other company is using old worn out surplus production gear, run by marketing people who have no technical expertise or interest in doing original research. They are marketing companies who just happen to have the funds to buy old bankrupt tube production lines. I know the owners of two popular brands personally. They have no technical background yet the marketing stresses technical advantages that are nonsense. The only testing is an emissions test at voltages that are far less than any known amp circuit. They really do not know the specs of the tubes yet publish numbers copied out of old tube handbooks. One of them wanted me to measure specs which I did but he used the old ones from the RCA book instead because they were more impressive.
I have never had an out of the box defective Svetlana tube or one that did not outlast any competitors in the same application. That came from continuous development of the large RF metal ceramic tubes. Last week I got 6 EH 12ax7's for stock. They cost the same wholesale as Svetlana's. On the curve tracer, none matched sections. One was dead, fully dead, but the heater was working, no plate current drawn in a test jig that worked with all the other. Another one was much weaker than the other and unusable in even a follower stage. I've bought bulk tubes from China which were priced as untested unmarked tubes. I found that most were quite good even though in lots of of 1000 were priced so low I was skeptical. It took a couple days to test half of them and I left the other half in their shipping boxes to be tested when I ever get low. J.J. tubes are well thought of here on the forum but I have had terrible luck with them, particularly EL-34 dying horrible deaths within the first few hours. They do OK in low power applications with lower plate voltages I have found.
I just bought 6 6550's today of a guy's Ampeg, and had to use EH and the wholesale cost was $1 more than Svetlana super tough KT88's. I will keep my fingers crossed that I do not have to replacement all for free.

[drewl]

Nice (long) story, like I said, someone should buy out their audio tube assets.

[Enzo]

I think that was a good part of Stan's point, buying the assets was how all these other companies came to be. Buying the machines is not the same as buying the expertise. Just as someone might buy my shop, but that wouldn;t mean they knew what I know about fixing amps. Someone buys their assets, you wind up with just another Sovtek.

[Gtr_tech]

Hmm.....this is no good. But I guess we saw it coming over the years with decreased production of audio tubes. I guess out best bet now is JJ if they can figure out how to make a good preamp tube.....

[Justin Thomas]

I just found SED 6L6GCs a couple years ago & fell in love. I'll miss them. I can work with JJ power tubes, too... almost as good, so glad they're still around. I wonder if the SEDs will go for BIG $$$ as NOS like the RCA & GEs do now... I'll buy if I can afford it! Still, bummer... I liked them - fat, plump, round, perfect for my Bassmans & Concert. I've been not very happy with EH tubes - my Champ blew two in a month. I stuck the old RCA back in it, hoping it doesn't short; it's been in there for at least 6 years. Sovteks are what I used pre-SED/EH, and they last forever but don't have the same sound. Probably go NOS/ANOS for preamp tubes, though; scavenging has proven rewarding in that area!

Justin

[soundmasterg]

Some of you working on high voltage amps or needing solid 6550s or KT88s should stock up on any spares your distributor has because Svetlana(the real one, not Sovtek/New Sensor), the longest operating producer of vacuum tubes, has halted production of glass tubes and is selling off little remaining stock. Some types are already out of stock.
From my experience, these have been the most reliable long lived tubes for larger amps with high anode voltages so we really have no viable choices left for demanding applications. I visited the factory here in St Petersburg yesterday and was told the news.
This is bad news on many fronts, here, they were the same price as the under performing ElectroHarmonix that I do not dare put into SVT's that I have to warranty.
Anyone making a robust 6550 or KT88?

Crap, this sux. Their 6L6 and EL34 and 6550C/KT88's were fantastic, though priced too high in comparison to others the last couple of years.

Greg

[km6xz]

The pricing is strange for sure. Here right from the factory the 6550s are $27.60 each but just 1/2 mile away is the testing and administrative office for Sovtek/New Sensor, and the under 10 quant. price is $28.98. How much are distributors in the US selling them for now?
a Russian made 12AX7 is $8.63 each for $1500 worth but $11.90 for 1. My my cost in China is $4.70 for tubes that are quieter. Chinese EL-34 are $6.80, Russian are $16.39 for 1.
The best "12AX7" find is the 6.3 volt only fil. made in Russia for a long time numbered 6Н2п that has the heater on 4&5 and pin 9 is an internal shield between the two triodes. They have not been in production for a long time but there are many thousands in warehouses around the country. I have about 100 of them and use them in new builds or where the owner knows not to plug in a 12AX7 without moving a wire. Here, they sell for $0.75 or so. They are great for V1 because of their internal shield and higher gain than a 12AX7, yet have low micro-phonics. They have some interesting planar 6.3v single triodes in 7 pin packages that are the lowest in micro-phonics I have found than ex-Svetlana engineer gave to me. I used them in a prototype mic preamp that tests really well.

[tubeswell]

Dayyum