Anyone have experience with a Fender Champ 12?

[teletwanger48]

I recently acquired a Fender Cham 12 in dead mint condition. This one looks exactly like a blackface with the silver grill cloth.

. It is a bit hotter amp than a standard blackface amp and has a reverb that is okay.. not really good Fender reverb but useable.. and a hi gain channel. The clean channel is just pure Fender and works great..

The high gain channel is no lie.. high gain is definately there in spades squared.. and then some. In otherwords, it is way too much gain and way too loud even choked almost all the way off. I was thinking that a tube change in a particular socket could do the trick. Anyone know which tube on the chassis is the one that controls this gain? Like to make it more bluesy, country and less EVH or so..

Any ideas?

Thanks...

[teletwanger48]

Here you go.. a reply to myself.. LOL..

Here is some info on the tubes..

V1 is the preamp tube and half of V2 is the gain stage and the other half is reverb control. The amp sounded good before. It had new JJ 12AX7s and a new JJ 6L6 power tube. I did some testing and put a NOS Sylvania 12AT7 in the V2 socket and immediately noticed 3 things that changed. The Reverb now sounded much better but just not enough of it. Lush Fenderish sound but had to dime it to get a good sized reverb sound out of it.. nothing like a 10 on other fender amps... the gain stage was much more controllable and had a much better sound.. AND.. the amp overall really had a great sound. .much better than before. I have a NOS Fender groove tubes 12AX7 so I decided to try it in the V2 socket.. wow.. that was the trick. Much more reverb and a tad more gain but not nearly as much as with the JJ and not as harsh sounding.. still getting that really great classic Fender sound and the Reverb almost has a pop to it on 10. I tried the Groove Tubes 12AX7 in the V1 location and the 12AT7 in V2. Even better sound but lost the reverb again. Back to not enough.. but great sounding.. so I swapped them and put the 12AT7 in V1 and the 12AX in V2. WOW.. now I know what amp to record with.. It is simply awesome. Like having a Champ on steroids with reverb. The Gain channel isn't the greatest, but with this tube setup much better and very useable in some instances. Could use a good EQ to kick in and out with the gain as that channel is much brighter than the normal channel even witht the Treble turned all the way off it is bright.. the amp is very bright overall and I run the bass on 10 and the treble on about 3.5 or 4..

BTW.. using a Gretsch Jet with TV Jones filtertrons in it..

IMHO nothing sounds better than a Great Gretsch through a Fender tube amp if everything is set up right..

Hope this helps someone in the future... don't be afraid to experiment with the tubes in your amp.. oh, I also changed the 6L6 out for a NOS Ruby I had... I did that first and that may have helped the sound as much as anything.. but all three of those tubes work well together in that configuration...

[Mick Bailey]

I had a snakeskin Champ 12 for repair and it struck me how good it was. I liked the OTT gain - especially with my Kramer Pacer for Satriani-type stuff. The reverb tray was taped up in a cardboard tube and had the flimsiest wires connecting it.

[teletwanger48]

The pictures I have seen on the inside of the amp don't say much for that 'Fender quality'. But it works.. lol. I wish it had a reverb pan like the other amps have. but oh well, have to cross that bridge when it needs crossing. I am slowly falling in love with this amp. It came dead mint with the cover, manual and all.. even the power chord red end looks new. I found one little scrape on the tolex but I have seen worse on new amps at the store. It certainly had character.

[Mick Bailey]

Nice. I asked to buy the one I had in for repair but she wouldn't sell. Are they Mexican?

[teletwanger48]

I don't know for sure as it doesn't say on the back either way. That means probably that theyare NOT made in America. Of course, the only difference between American and Mexican anymore is.. in Mexico, it is built by Jose Rodriguez and in America it is put together by Fernando Jiminez.....

[JoeM]

Does it have a serial number label that starts LOxxxx? Pretty sure these are American made.

[Dave H]

The high gain channel is no lie.. high gain is definately there in spades squared.. and then some. In otherwords, it is way too much gain and way too loud even choked almost all the way off.

Any ideas?

Thanks...

The gain channel probably doesn’t have as much gain as you think. It has 1M log pots but they are not used as potential dividers but as variable resistors in series with much smaller resistors (R16 47k, R25 100k) which completely destroys the log law of the pots so that it’s flat out before 2 on the dial. If you could change the ‘gain’ and ‘overdrive’ pots (R19, R26) to 100k log it would probably work a lot better and the clean channel and reverb would not be affected as they are with a tube change.

[teletwanger48]

yes the serial number is LO.. there is NO mention of Mexico, japan or another place other than Berea Ca. but it does NOT say made in U.S.A. like most do from that era and later. Wish I could find some good site for dating it. Not exactly sure when it was made, but it looks like old school Fender except for the knobs.. black knobs.. but no numbers..

[teletwanger48]

thanks for the info.. that is good to know.. I may someday do that.. right now.. just finished a 5F1 sort of build.. and in the middle of a 5e3 or 5F6, not shure which one it will turn out to be.. got plenty of oomph on the transformers and running 6l6s should be no problem.. just have to work out the preamp section.. but then 6v6s are so smooth and round sounding.

[Enzo]

The Champ 12 is from what, about 1986? if you want to know its age, look on the pots an larger components for date codes. Speaker too. Sometimes QC stickers inside are dated. They were not making things in Asia back them I don't think.

[Mick Bailey]

"The original late ‘80s USA-made examples will have “Made in USA” actually moulded into the Fender plate on the front speaker grille"
Late 1980s Fender Champ 12 Amplifier | Planet Botch

[JoeM]

yes the serial number is LO.. there is NO mention of Mexico, japan or another place other than Berea Ca. but it does NOT say made in U.S.A. like most do from that era and later. Wish I could find some good site for dating it. Not exactly sure when it was made, but it looks like old school Fender except for the knobs.. black knobs.. but no numbers..

LO is for Lake Oswego, Oregon, where Fender had a factory. So your amp is USA made.

[teletwanger48]

This is awesome. I never would have see that with these old eyes. but it is there.. Now.. how to figure out what it is actually worth, dead mint. It still has the rubber tips over the Tape In jacks. Only thing missing is the hang tags and the magazine advertisement. Still have the original tubes, though I am not using them.