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Mackie SWA 1801 Service Notes

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  • Mackie SWA 1801 Service Notes

    After a recent failure on a Mackie SWA 1801, I thought I'd share a number of common ailments that occur when the Power Amp fails..

    In-rush Current Limit resistor R2 usually burns open before the HV power supply fuses F1 & F4 (10A) can react., as well as the AC mains fuse on this same AC Mains PCB Assy F1 (T8A). Maybe the fault current causes the relay to open (P/S sag), and the resistor becomes the fuse. Once it's burned open, nothing powers up again.

    On this same PCB, invariably I find radial solder joint fractures on the IEC 320 AC mains connector…usually on all three solder contacts. Same goes with the Transformer Primary connector in use (whether 120V or 240V). De-soldering and re-soldering these is the proper solution…not just applying more solder.

    Often the leads of R2 (22 ohm 20W) of this large cement filled bathtub WW resistor have snapped off, unless it had been glued down. I add a small film of RTV when installing replacement resistor, and fold over the leads prior to good soldering. It’s only in circuit until the relay REL1 closes. I also find solder fractures on that relay. ALL the AC Mains current is flowing thru that, so it’s a critical connection for the system.

    Also on the AC Mains board is J4, a tiny 2-pin connector, usually gooped with RTV to hold the heavy cable in place. It provides the power for the AC Mains Relay, and has been responsible for abrupt output disruptions of the system from vibration if the solder joints and/or connection from the power amp board isn’t secure. A critical weak link in the system. I’ve been hoodwinked by that connection before, when everything ran proper until restoring the power panel to the cabinet. Then, high level ‘barking’ on peak bass transients would occur.

    The amplifier is very similar to the SWA 1501, except it has bipolar switched HV rails and no MosFET’s returning the woofer output current back thru ground to the HV supply. Here, the SWA 1801 switches on the appropriate HV supply when signal dictates voltage swing needs to go above the +/- 18V rails. Its’ MosFET’s Q6 & Q14 are carrying the higher signal peak voltages of the HV power supply thru 10A Fuses F1 & F4 to feed the output stage Q4, Q5, Q15 & Q16.

    I rarely find those fuses blown, BUT I often find the fuse clips broken or too weak to keep a fuse in place. Replacing them is a PITA, as so much heat is needed to suck out all the solder in the plated-thru holes. I live by a well-maintained Pace Desoldering System, and in heavy copper areas, add additional heat with a wide tip on the soldering iron to extract the old solder. Those clips MUST be solid, as all your output current is flowing thru them and the fuses installed. Schruder P/N is 0751-0099

    When the power panel has failed, it’s not uncommon to find MosFET’s Q6 & Q14 shorted, Output Xstrs Q4, Q5, Q15 & Q16 shorted, driver Xstrs Q3 & Q18 shorted, with their emitter resistors R8 & R56 burned to cinders along with R7 & R57 at the ends of the cascode stage. And, often the circuit traces between Q3 & Q18 collectors and the bias path burned open or overheated and dysfunctional. Removal of the failed PCB copper traces and installation of insulated wiring req'd to restore order

    The last three I worked on also had bulging HV power supply caps, where more than one of the buss caps had failed. Getting those off the PCB without damaging the board is challenging, as they have been glued down with just gobs and gobs of glue. And, more fun extracting all the solder out of their PCB pads & plate-thru’s in the process.

    I’ve changed to MJL21193 (PNP) and MJL21194 (NPN) from the 2SA1943 & 2SC5200, as they have better SOA and current capacity.

    In the HV power supply area, it’s not uncommon to find the 1/2 W zeners D3, D30 (1N5245) and 1W zeners D2 & D38 shorted, and resistors R1 (2.2k 5W) & R65 (3.3k 5W) open and having applied enough heat to the PCB over time for the board to be discolored. There’s always current flowing thru these 5W resistors, and yes, they’re always hot to the touch. Filter caps C3 & C34 (100uF/25V) are sometimes bad. I use 105 deg C rated caps for them, usually higher voltage as well for higher charge current rating & lower Z). You also want to check the gate resistors R3, R64, bias resistors R2 & R63 and the high current clamp diodes D4, D32 and the remainder of the high speed diodes D5, D11, D30 & D37 & steering diodes D10 & D33. I’ve never seen those large axial lead diodes fail, but always good to check. I have had broken leads on D4 or D32 occur while getting the PCB up off the power plate before.

    The opto-isolated gate driver IC HCPL-3100 rarely fails. But, it’s a critical part to the HV supply, and there are no direct replacements. I find them on ebay from IC sources in Asia from time to time. It’s a discontinued part, so at some point, all the Mackie SWA 1501’s, 1801’s, SA1232’s and SA1532’s will be in the bone yard for lack of this part. It’s a good system, though a bit thin in the area of having enough silicone in the power path to withstand the current demands of loudspeaker system in use.

    The special caps Mackie had made to order C1 & C3 have four leads on them….and all the HV power supply current is flowing thru the leads on the fuse side of the caps. I’ve found one with a broken lead before, but was able to recover, as there was enough ‘stubble’ underneath on the cap to wrap in a new lead and re-install them.

    The insulator material between the aluminum heat spreaders and the heat sink of the power plate is another headache. Thermoset takes place between the power semiconductors and the material, so when you have gotten all the hardware off the power plate, the power devices are still ‘glued’ into place from this long-term action, and the insulation usually peels away, still adhered to the heat spreader of the devices. You can’t just install new devices and tighten them down now. You no longer have full insulation.

    I usually install cut-to-fit Bergquist K10 insulator material or greased mica, after cleaning off the original material. I haven’t identified who the mfgr is of that green thermal insulator compound. Using greased mica, you have to be sure to align the holes with that of the xstrs.

    In this system, the front end signal processing board gets its’ supply voltage from the bipolar 18V supplies. I have had failures on the bipolar 12V supply on that board. The MUTE signal comes from it, so I normally power up the LF amp without the HV fuses F1 & F4 in place, the connector J1 unplugged, and a jumper across R2 on the AC Mains PCB so I can bring up the power amp on the variac, watching the AC Power Analyzer for any fault current, monitoring output of the amp at J4-1 (or D11, D30), while watching LED’s D9 & D12. Usually both these LED’s will come on at the same time. If not, there will be a DC offset at J4-1, but no fault current (unless I missed something). Normally, by the time I’m up to 80VAC or greater, both LED’s are lit, the power relay has clicked in, and there’s little to no DC level offset at the output.

    If I had any failures on the signal processing board, I normally power it up from an external bipolar supply during surgery. Once cured, it goes back onto the power panel, and I can plug it back in. I verify I have a functional amplifier before I ever couple in the HV supplies. Prior to doing that, I’ve powered down and then discharged the HV supplies before ever installing the fuses F1 & F4.

    When powering the complete system back up, still having the in-rush resistor R2 bypassed, I have scope probes on the steering diodes D10 & D33, which allows me to watch the voltages come up to their idle point at around +/- 18V. For AC signal, I use pink noise passing thru a 1/3 oct. filter, usually 80Hz to start. The random pink noise thru the LF 1/3 oct filter produces variable amplitude sine waves, that can very in magnitude over 10dB from min to max, so it’s a very useful test signal for observing the switched behavior of the HV system. My main output is monitored on the scope along with the positive and negative peaks, coming from +/- 95VDC. If all is well, the baseline of the HV system remains at +/- 18V, and ONLY the signal peaks pass on up to the supply limits. Once I have that, I’ll connect a known working 4 ohm woofer, and run it. If the woofer in the SWA 1801 has been verified to be functional, I'll then connect it. 40Hz & 50Hz 1/3 oct pink will produce thunderous acoustic level if all is well.

    At that point, I’ll power down, remove the clip lead around R2 on the AC Mains board, and check the system powers up and down reliably, and then burn in the amp under drive, usually at 50Hz or 63Hz. Shakes the walls in the shop for sure.
    Last edited by nevetslab; 01-03-2014, 06:02 PM.
    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

  • #2
    Very thorough thread! It must have taken a lot of repairs to detail all of those little issues and how to fix them.

    I've seen a lot of threads talking about how these particular Mackie subs can be trouble. Have you seen similar issues with the JBL EON subs?

    Jamie

    Comment


    • #3
      I haven't had the opportunity to service any of the JBL EON subs, so while I can't comment on specifics, I can on the most common ailment that I spend 95% of my time fixing. SOLDER FRACTURES! Most are a result of poor engineering practice, where the belief that pots' & connectors' PCB terminals make proper mechanical support for mounting PCB's to panels, eliminating the need for real mechanical supports! LOL! Gear that travels from show to show, whether in road cases or not, over time, cause unsuported PCB assemblies to flex and vibrate, and before long, you have to give the gear a good whack on the top to wake it back up. Vibration from powered subs, over time, can also lead to them. Others occur from flow solder operations, where the larger mass solder pads and mating parts don't get enough heat to make a solid joint to begin with. Then, there's high current & dissimilar metals, and you get metal migration, that develop into microscopic radial fractures, that later oxidize and interrmittent conduction begins happening, further erroding the connections. I've repaired a lot of QSC Powerlight 6.0's & 9.0's as a result of those radial fractures on their PS/Amp board terminal strips & XSTR connections on both.

      On my bench is a fiber optic headlight system & surgical loupes that are focusable. I use them daily, and it's just amazing what you find on gear that has stopped working. Armed with that and a well-maintained Pace Solder/Desolder station & all the appropriate tips, along with a good supply of solder wick, I spend a lot of time de-soldering and re-soldering connections that have often led to expensive failures, or just restoring order to something that just stopped working for no known particular reason.

      On the Mackie powered subs, their main PS/Amp board is really well built, although use of 25mA PCB tracks (SWA 1801) between Q3, Q17 & Q18, under fault conditions, those seriously overheat and often burn open!. I rarely find solder fractures on it, but on their AC Mains board, nearly always, as I commented on in the 3rd-5th paragraphs in my initial post. I wish they didn't fold their component leads over on the main PCB prior to flow-soldering, as it would sure make minor surgery a lot easier. Being in a hurry and not wanting to remove that large PCB off the power plate is a quick way to lift the solder pad off the board.

      Any idea who the manufacturer is of that green thermal insuation material they use on the heat sink blocks?

      Steve
      Last edited by nevetslab; 01-03-2014, 11:20 PM.
      Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nevetslab View Post
        I wish they didn't fold their component leads over on the main PCB prior to flow-soldering, as it would sure make minor surgery a lot easier.
        Hah.
        Wait until you get ahold of one of Samson's latest & greatest accomplishments.

        There L615 is real treat.

        The middle of the board (where the heaviest components are) has no support, so the board flexes.

        Add that to the 'bent over component lead, clamped to the heatsink, I ain't moving' thing & you end up with :

        A -15 volt regulator that takes all the flexing & it's leads fracture. (I have seen nine of these)

        Cute, huh.?

        Comment


        • #5
          Wonder if they learned to do that by looking at a late generation Eden WT-800, who's chassis floor TO-220 15V regulators were likewise stretched to the breaking points, providing 'rugged' PCB support. Cute indeed!
          Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello everyone figured I start by introducing myself. I'm Sergio and basically consider myself an amateur but I do have a slight background in electronics by completing an electronics course and I actually repair power tools and am around electronics and components all the time. MY ISSUE/HEADACHE LOL is this damn Mackie swa1801. I play in a band as well and have two of these mackies and an extra amp board as a spare. Well the spare is dead and the second Mackie is down. I tore into this amp and replaced R2 22ohm 20W which I thought was the main issue considering that the amp didn't power on. Well there was more a lot more. Bulging HV Caps the usual Q3,Q18,Q6,Q14,Zener Diodes, Resistors and more. Basically I replaced almost all the transistors, diodes, Caps, even U2 NE5532AN. I powered up the amp using a lamp limiter and great its up and running no blown fuses nothing smoking. Great I think. Well I have major Distortion past 1/4 way of gain. Because of the distortion is one of the reasons I tried to replace U2. Made sure the input board was ok by running another cable from the parallel input to another amp and speaker and signal was good. Also measured the resistance of the Speaker itself and was good even pushed in on the speaker cone and check measurements to make sure nothing was glitching. This amp is driving me crazy and I'm at the point where I spent so much time troubleshooting that my brain is acting up and I must be overlooking something simple. Few main components that I have not changed out are both l3 5uh, C1, C33, and HCPL-3100's. I replied here hoping that nevetslab or someone else that is more acquainted with these amps may be of assistance and possibly point me in a direction. Thank you in advance. Sergio.

            Comment


            • #7
              I assume after you had replaced the collection of parts you mentioned, the amp did power back up and its' output at the speaker connection was sitting at near 0VDC. As you were finding what sounds like severe distortion, what happens when you remove the two HV fuses F1 & F4 (both 10A Fast, nested in the vicinity of the HV buss caps)?

              When I'm restoing order on these amps, I need to make sure the conventional power amp circuit is working correctly, even though it has low headroom, running off the +/- 18V supplies. That's still enough to verify you don't have component problems yet to be found. With those fuses removed, you don't have the complication of the signal-driven high voltage system adding all the transient headroom to the output stage.

              You can also run the front end board indepently, if that's where your level-dependent problem is occuring. I have external dual-tracking power supplies to aid in doing that sort of thing, so I'm not tethered to the huge boat-anchor of the SWA1801 power panel.

              Though, in a pinch, and not having those luxeries, you could short circuit the 1k input resistor of the power amp R12 to ground (the point commont to R23), so you can drive the input board as hard as you need, to see if you get clean signal all the way thru to that point. On the preamp board, U3A (NE5532) is your drive amplifier, already has a 2.2k build-out resistor, so shorting out the power amp's input circuit won't cause any harm...it just prevents driving the power amp.

              You'll have to look at your service documents for the parts placement & the schematics.....sounds like you already have those.

              Sorry for not replying earlier....it being well into June '14....been busy on other projects since my last post.

              Trouble-shooting the switched HV circuit is a bit more tricky. Let's see if your problem is prior to that first.

              Cheers,

              Steve
              Last edited by nevetslab; 06-13-2014, 07:03 PM.
              Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks to nevetslab for the detail repair help. Can anyone tell me the part number or specs on REL1. The top of mine is melted and unreadable. TIA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Contact Loud Technologies.
                  LOUD Technologies Inc. - Contact
                  They can certainly supply you with the pertinent information.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looking at the schematic for the AC Mains Input board, that Relay is marked as:

                    RELEF 4061-24
                    16A/24V/380VAC

                    24VDC Coil, the contats are rated for 380VAC/16A. SPDT. I've never had to replace one, so I haven't researched the various sources are. PCB Footprint should be a common one, I'd think 250VAC 16A rating would also probably be suitable....I can't recall seeing one of those PCB relays with a 380VAC voltage rating.
                    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just an observation ..these Mackie units seem to take up quite a lot of space up on the forum.
                      One I started a while ago on the SWA1501 grew to 187 posts and there is a lot of very useful info there.
                      E.g. the post by HD sarge
                      The problem is the the silkscreen is wrong, the parts match the wrong labeling. The result is the parts are oriented correctly, but placed wrong in the circuit.
                      I guess they sell a phenomenal amount of these units and DJ's wreck the vast majority.
                      Or are they really rubbish?

                      nevetslab your info is most useful.

                      http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16267/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nevetslab View Post
                        Looking at the schematic for the AC Mains Input board, that Relay is marked as:

                        RELEF 4061-24
                        16A/24V/380VAC

                        24VDC Coil, the contats are rated for 380VAC/16A. SPDT. I've never had to replace one, so I haven't researched the various sources are. PCB Footprint should be a common one, I'd think 250VAC 16A rating would also probably be suitable....I can't recall seeing one of those PCB relays with a 380VAC voltage rating.
                        Thanks so much! Mackie tech said they no longer support the product and wouldn't give any info.

                        My amp had a shorted filter cap and bad solder on J4 plus the melted relay.

                        Got all that sorted. My HV rail voltage is 102V. This sound high to anyone? My mains is 122V.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by logsquared View Post
                          Thanks so much! Mackie tech said they no longer support the product and wouldn't give any info.

                          My amp had a shorted filter cap and bad solder on J4 plus the melted relay.

                          Got all that sorted. My HV rail voltage is 102V. This sound high to anyone? My mains is 122V.
                          In checking my notes, I was seeing +/- 95V on the main buss rails, measured load side of fuses F1 & F4, with reference to GND. 102V was measured where? This is a BiPolar high current supply, whereas the SWA 1501 uses a single HV rail. 102V, if seen at the collectors of either the top or bottom half of the amplifier output stage isn't abnormally high at idle, but....it is greater than the 100 V Buss Cap rating.
                          Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nevetslab View Post
                            In checking my notes, I was seeing +/- 95V on the main buss rails, measured load side of fuses F1 & F4, with reference to GND. 102V was measured where? This is a BiPolar high current supply, whereas the SWA 1501 uses a single HV rail. 102V, if seen at the collectors of either the top or bottom half of the amplifier output stage isn't abnormally high at idle, but....it is greater than the 100 V Buss Cap rating.
                            I measured from ground to the + and - terminal on the bridge rectifier. Im in an old industrial building, so mains voltage is pretty high here. I can't believe they would cut it that close on the cap rating though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just had one that was sitting at 102V too. Even 95V seems too close for 100V caps. Does the amp work at all?

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