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Randall RM-100 Blowing fuses - likely not a tube problem need troubleshooting advice

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  • Randall RM-100 Blowing fuses - likely not a tube problem need troubleshooting advice

    Hello,

    I have an RM-100 that according to the owner had been behaving normally then started blowing fuses - It will blow the individual 400ma power tube fuses - at random - and, sometimes it will take out the two 1.6A HT fuses. It has done this on the original EL-34s and on various sets of 6L6GCs. I switched to 6L6GCs to rule out high peak current draw that EL-34s are prone to.

    Note - when testing I made sure to set bias voltage to a very conservative starting value to insure low current draw. I did this in standby mode using octal test sockets which gave me easy access to measure grid voltage in case you are wondering.

    My gut tells me this is not a tube issue and my next guess would be a shorted filter cap. However, due to the complex design of this amp and the lack of a factory schematic I am hesitant to start shotgunning. It's a lot of work to get those filter caps out and replace.

    I would greatly appreciate if someone who has experience with this amp could offer some advice on any other places to look for a major short, and whether anyone thinks it would be best to go ahead with a recap. There's a lot of "stuff" in the power supply = a lot of places where something can go wrong, and without a schematic it's hard to guess where to look for other fault paths.

    Much Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    From what I can tell, the HT fuses are supposed to be slow-blow, and the tube fuses are supposed to be fast blow. Is that what he has replaced them with?
    Originally posted by Enzo
    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by g-one View Post
      From what I can tell, the HT fuses are supposed to be slow-blow, and the tube fuses are supposed to be fast blow. Is that what he has replaced them with?

      The tube fuses installed now are fast blow. I'm not sure what the HT fuses were that blew before I got it but the replacements I've been using to test are fast acting. I couldn't find any reference to type in the manual.


      I had forgot to mention that the fuses, both tube and HT blow immediately at HT turn on - no lag time and the corresponding tube arcs. It behaves like dead short to ground somewhere.

      Do you happen to know where the two HT fuses are located in the circuit? PT pri? or before or after the filtering chain?

      Comment


      • #4
        Can you bring the HT up slowly with a Variac? It seems like an inrush current problem, 1.6A fuse for a HT seems BIG.
        Now Trending: China has found a way to turn stupidity into money!

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        • #5
          It may just be a bad tube. Do not use the tube that is arcing, remove it.
          The HT fuses may just be blowing from the surge when coming out of standby, that's why they use slow-blows there.
          The HT fuses are on the secondary of the PT, usually after the rectifier, but sometimes before.
          Originally posted by Enzo
          I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


          Comment


          • #6
            Surge smurge, a tube arcing inside trumps all the other considerations, get rid of that tube.
            Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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            • #7
              I did some research and the 1.6A HT fuses are factory specified as slo blo. I also pulled all tubes and turned on the HT and no fuse blowing which should rule out a shorted filter cap. Will have to order some slo blos to retest.


              I will grab the variac this weekend and try a slow start.

              Sounds like inrush peaks may be the issue. I haven't tried to crunch any numbers on those but it seems like they may have the fuses rated very close to the margin there. I do know the very first version of this amp used 250ma fuses for the tubes and then later increased this to 400ma because people were complaining about those fuses blowing all the time. I actually have 500ma fuses in those positions now and they still fry.

              I will call Randall tomorrow and see if I can get the schematic. I was concerned there may have been other safety circuitry in the PS which could have gone bad and created a short somewhere. It's impossible to reverse engineer without pulling the board out which would be a major job.

              They designed this amp to handle 6L6, 5881, EL34 and 6550 which seems like a wide range to optimize for and stay safe at the same time.

              Comment


              • #8
                The tube fuses (400mA) should be in the cathode circuits of the tubes. There shouldn't be any kind of surge happening there, if they blow either the tubes are bad or there is a problem in the bias circuitry. You need to verify there is good bias voltage at the socket grid pins before installing any output tubes.
                Originally posted by Enzo
                I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi guys, I just read your messages. I had the same problem since yesterday after a power fuse burned during a gig. Today I removed the (black) power entry at the back side (removing the screws) and unplugged accidentally the 3 black wires and one white one, including the brown one. Now I need to reconnect the wires but I do not know for sure how to connect them because I didn't found a good schematic or diagram where it made clear how to connect them again.

                  Is there somebody who's having a description how to connect the black power entry (of the Randall RM100) again to all the (inside) wires (or maybe a picture of how it's all connected)? I would be really thankful if somebody can help me out .

                  as I remember 3 black wires, one white a red and yellow etc. I need to know how I need to connect them safely again.

                  Many regards from Holland!!

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                  • #10
                    The transformer primary wires are shown as going to the power switch.

                    Brown is 240Vac
                    White is Primary Common.

                    Hard to believe that they ran two Black wires from the IEC connector to the switch.

                    RM100 - Power Supply.pdf

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                    • #11
                      I guess that is better than opening an amp and finding every wire in it is yellow.
                      Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
                        The transformer primary wires are shown as going to the power switch.

                        Brown is 240Vac
                        White is Primary Common.

                        Hard to believe that they ran two Black wires from the IEC connector to the switch.

                        [ATTACH]36233[/ATTACH]
                        Many thanks mr Jazz P Bass, I hope we can now reconnect all the wires in the right order on the black power supply of the Randall top RM 100 . Do you have more schematics or diagrams, because I think I will need them later also, it will help a technician to fix the real problem, I think I have some bad tubes which resulted the burning fuse. It was a nice surprise to read your helpful tip and see the schematic. I am not really into the technical stuff but I will take it with me to somebody who understand the schematic. It is really hard to find all relevant details and information regarding the Randall RM100. Wish you all a good time later on .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GridLeak View Post
                          ...My gut tells me this is not a tube issue...
                          Much Thanks in advance.
                          my gut tells me it is, so that cancels out your gut feeling

                          check the tubes

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                          • #14
                            Complete svhematic.

                            RM100 - Schematics Full.zip

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
                              Complete svhematic.

                              [ATTACH]36239[/ATTACH]
                              MANY THANKS ! I am so happy with this great info - contribution and the tips of you all guys. Sunny regards from Amsterdam - the Netherlands, and good luck with all the good things you are doing. I hope that I can help you with something else, although I am not a technician..

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