Kurzweil PC2 Kybd. w/ the usual keyboard weights coming loose issue>DIY fix advice?

[ptmbass]

Kurzweil PC2 Keyboard with the usual keyboard weights coming loose issue>DIY fix advice?
Hi Guys,
I new to the site.
I have Kurzweil PC2 with the usual keyboard weights coming loose and rolling around. I just took out 5 thru the battery compartment below.
[I'm familiar with this as I also own a PC88 with similar issues.] Since schlepping the PC2 in everytime to the repair this ocurrs at $150 a pop isn't cost effective, does anyone have any DYI tips or sites to visit. I'm not afraid to poke around inside kybds. FWIW,according to the local techs told me not to bother as it seems to be a PIA to take apart and reassemble and time intensive even for them.
Any thought/insights/caveats/sites to visit would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
PTMBASS

[Enzo]

It has been a while, but I seem to recall the weights are separate, and the keys push down on them to lift them, making a hammer-like feel, yes? Plastic things with a metal ingot inside, and some red felt where the axle ran through? As I further recall, the little tabs would break off so some would no longer actuate. On others there was a stop tab that broke off so the things could flip all the way up, then you could no longer push that key down. And others would no longer be constrained so they smacked against the underside of the key, making a loud clacking sound.

If those describe your unit, well good luck. I used to try to replace individual weights, but after a while I found it was easier and a lot cheaper to replace the whole set of them at once. I found it very difficult to put weights on in the middle of the row. For that matter, it took some learning to figure out how to get them all in the proper position to install them. Seems to me the price of all the individual parts was way more than one complete set.

And one option a number of customers went for was to remove the weights, leaving the key action more like an average synth.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to pay it, but $150 sounds reasonable to me for the job.


There is nothing electronic about this repair, other than disconnecting a couple cables when you remove the keybed from the instrument.

[ptmbass]

Enzo,
Thanks for a quick reply!
I know its not an electronic issue but I didn't know where else to post in the forum[?].
What you described sound exactly like what the mechanism should be doing, altho' I haven't witnessed it 1st hand since I haven't opened any of my Kurweil kybds. to actually check them. The techs say you must remove stuf to actually get to the problem and remedy it, hence the time aspect. My point is that it's a reocurringproblem with these axes, _especially_ if you move it a round for gigs. Replacing all of 'em every time it happens or if just a few at a time happen becomes $150[ a fair price I agree] x each visit to solve the same issue is just silly....again not cost effective.
I've never had any of the keys stop working. The action just feels different on those compromised notes. Not a biggie as I can still play the axe.
It sounds like you've done this. I still have the weights so it makes no sense to buy a "new set", unless I'm missing something here. You mentioned the little tabs that would break off....is that part of the "new" set you mentioned?
Isn't there a fix for that?
it took some learning to figure out how to get them all in the proper position to install them
do you remember the trick for this?

[Enzo]

The tabs are not a part, they are a piece of the plastic molding of the weight.

The problem is labor. I charge $60 an hour. I can pull the keybed in maybe what 10 minutes? I can extract the weight set by releasing the mounts (I forget teh details at this point) and lifting out the axle rod with all the weights on it.

Now I can either stick in a new set of weights, already strung on their axle - they come that way when you order a set. Takes a few minutes.

--OR--

I can spend a couple hours dicking around trying to clamp individual weights onto the axle.


The old shop maxim holds true here:

Parts are cheaper than labor.


I don't know who all sells them, but I just found a keyweight... $17 EACH. But if you look at the enlarged image, you can see the groove for the axle, which must be snapped into the gap, but between the layers of red felt. The tabs I refer to would be the projections near the upper end. If they break off ro crack, there is no fixing them, only a new weight will repair it.

[Enzo]

Here, $4.50, that's much more reasonable. Note the tab sticking down, they break off.'
'
Kurzweil Sharp Key Weight - MK/RG [D39815016] - $4.50 : Celedonia Organ Service

[ptmbass]

I get it!
I couldn't even get top cover off to acess anything! Of course theres a trick somewhere. I removed all the obvious screws but theres something still holding it.So I can't even see if your descrption matches my kybd.
The weights[4] that were rattiling around by themselves were cylindrical & apprx .5 inch in length. The pic you sent doesn't look like there are the same kinda weights in the single replacement you showed.There was absolutley no white plastic or any kinda color plastic broken off in the kybd. itself. Which makes me think it's not the same assembly as the pic you sent. Its hard to see even on blowing it up.. Looks like a flattened square weight[?] I was able to acess the bottom opening where the replacable lithium battery and upgrade boards are located.
Anyway, I'm sure a whole replacement rod of weights at apprx 76 note x @$4.50= $342.00! which is probably not the real price or no one would ever do it.
If you are replacing the whole set like you mentioned, the problem for me is that its a reocurring problem so the $ factor evertime one or two gets broken is a drag. Don't know if Kurweil ever solved this problem onany of their new kybds. Again, much thanks for your time here.
Mark

[Enzo]

The whole set was REMARKABLY less costly than the parts to make a set up.

It has been a while so your model may have a different keybed from the ones I recall.

All the screws have to come out around the edge of the top panel, then the whole panel slides rearward an inch or so on slots inside. Only then can it be lifted up.


Answer me this: is there any kind of "action" feel to the keys? Or are they just simple weighted? I have been discussing the keys with hammer weight "action." If yours are simple weights, then each key has an included weight molded in, I think it may be a Fatar keybed.

[Enzo]

I am looking for photos, I came across one part seller. At over $20 a key, I think we can do better...

Search


OK, so far I am under $15 with :
Replacement Keys

And looking at the photo, I have to apologize, I have been describing PC88 type action keys. If you have cylindrical weights loose, I suspect they are broken off the black keys. See the image in the link, and the weight sticking out from the tip of the black key.

So no sets of weights, just individual expensive keys.

[ptmbass]

The leading back edge screws are out but not able to slide. There are also screws that "look" like they the 1/4 inch, midi, headphone, breath contoller inputs to the rear back of the top cover. I know from experience that they usully are not involved in removing the cover. I don't wanna unscrew and have them rendered usless and I still can't get the cove off!
The action is only simplyweighted. It is not like the PC88 "action"which I own also.

[ptmbass]

No problem.
Are u referring to the top of the inverted L black key on the right side? its not clear and doesn't look like the gray lead weight.
I'm not sure why[if I could gain acess to it] I could'nt just use silicone glue to put it back rather than disasemble and also but an $ key...?

[ptmbass]

why only the black key have this problem & not the white?

[Enzo]

Look at the photo in my second link, from Syntaur, and see the construction of the keys. The weight hangs down from the front of the black keys, whereas it is sort of enclosed within the white keys. Yes, the black key does have an inverted L shape, the front of the key is at top, and the weight is sticking out to the right, which would be down.

Again it has been a long time, but I seem to recall the plastic of the key molded around the weight, and the plastic breaks, allowing the weight to drop free.