5mm SQ Red/Yel LED's for Fender HR DieVille Amps, Pedals

[nevetslab]

While still going thru preventative maintenance on our rental inventory, I emptied the box of broken Fender HR Deville & Blues Deluxe foot pedals, the ones with the square LED's. After cobbling together a couple HR DeVille Pedals, while fixing the usual fractured solder joints on the T/S jack and foot switches, I found a lot of the LED's open, or only having one of the two cells working on the Bi-Color LED's.

I hadn't before ordered that part, so I didn't know what a total PITA it was to find that part. Seems to have disappeared in the 5mm Square package. I did finally find inventory from one source of a T1-3/4 5mm round 3-leaded Red/Yel LED, mfgr being VCG Optoelectronics, P/N VAOB-5GACE2-C. The Fender P/N for that Square Bi-Color LED is 031871, but I got nowhere trying to source it.

Mouser had around 1000 pcs on hand.....Newark stated it was a discontinued item, my not knowing Mouser had them, so I bought the last 8 pcs from Newark. There were more over in the UK, but with a high shpg cost to the US.

This is the older Aluminum Extrusion-based trapazodial pedal, that I guess isn't produced any longer. Maybe due to that LED? I dunno.

I had no trouble finding single color 5mm Sq LED's.

[Enzo]

If you have the Fender part number, then you ought to be able to order it from Fender or if not a Fender shop, order from any Fender parts seller like Parts is Parts or someone.

I don't know what the difference is, but 31871 is the LED for the footswitch. The LED for the amp chassis is 33177. Both are described the same. If one part number isn't to be had, perhaps try the other.

[g1]

The 33177 shows up at Darren Riley as 0033177000.
Fender LED 5x5MM Red/Green Bi-color 0033177000

[Enzo]

Yes, the "real" Fender part number always has extra zeroes on the front and rear of the number. We usually just abbreviate that to the core number. I guess it is just lazy thing to do, and can be confusing.

WOW... $3.95 is steep for one LED, but at least they have them.

[g1]

Yes, the "real" Fender part number always has extra zeroes on the front and rear of the number. We usually just abbreviate that to the core number.

Understood. When I can't find a Fender part # via online searching, I always try adding a zero or a couple zeroes in front of the number. That's how I found the darren riley part, google couldn't find it without the front zeroes.

Yes that is expensive, but as you say, they have them. People used to balk about prices of small things like plugs, etc. where I worked. "so and so up the street sells them for less", well why didn't you buy them then? "because they are out of stock". Of course it would usually turn out that once they got more, the price went up because the supplier had increased the price.
That $3.95 sounds like a Fender retailer price.

[sgelectric]

I bought one once. Darren Riley's was the only place I could find one.
In my case the shipping cost more than the part but it is the exact part and the service was very fast.

SG

[nevetslab]

What I found at Darren Riley's was the Red/Green 5mm Square LED. All of our HRD's are Red/Yel. I hadn't seen the rest of the Fender amp parts on his site when I looked yesterday...saw them today....nearly fell over seeing $4.95 for the 5mm sq Red (and other color) LED's, which I paid around 9 cents each for at Newark...a Lumex part!

I almost paid their $6 ea price on the HRD input jacks until I found some elsewhere for $2 ea. Such as it goes on electronic components. The 5mm square package on bi-color LED's seems to be a manufacturer part only, where you can buy anything needed in quantity out of Asia. It has no sales potential for normal parts vendors like Farnell, Mouser, DigiKey, Newark, and such...so you'll never find them, unless you can still get them from Fender, and pay their price. I hadn't thought to add the extra 0's...just used the p/n out of their service manual on the HRD 210/410 and got nowhere until coming here.

I'll probably try the round peg in the square hole on a couple pedals for now.

[52 Bill]

What I found at Darren Riley's was the Red/Green 5mm Square LED. All of our HRD's are Red/Yel.

I think all of them are red/green it's when both are energized that they appear to be yellow.

[Jazz P Bass]

Ahh.
One of the quirks of human vision.

Quote" Yes. The retina of a normal human eye contains 3 types of cone for the reception of colour. These are inaccurately called blue cones, green cones, and red cones. They are more correctly called S cones (short-wavelength), M cones (middle-wavelength), and L cones (long-wavelength). The perception of the colour yellow is due to the stimulation of both the M and L cones. The brain uses a combination of signals from all 3 cone types to perceive the various colours. It is probably more correct to say that the brain (and not the eye) sees yellow. It has been estimated that humans can distinguish about 10 million different colours. "
From: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...0034953AAOTQSK

Another good one: try to imagine Red/ Green or Yellowish/ Blue.
They exist. We simply cannot perceive them.
The 'Forbidden Colors'.
Red-Green & Blue-Yellow: The Stunning Colors You Can't See
Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Enzo]

Bill beat me to it. All the LEDs are R/G, there is no R/Y. Both R and G on at once makes yellow. In fact when someone reports their drive/more-drive light comes on green, we instantly know the red side is not lighting.

[nevetslab]

.....so much for taking the time to really ready the circuit. The Bi-Color lamps that fail are those in the foot switch. Fender gives those a different P/N. I gotta go fetch one of the working ones to see this. I should have remembered my color theory from photography, combining Red & Grn = Yel. Gotta see what IS in the pedals...those are what I'm replacing at the moment. Many thanks for the education.

[52 Bill]

I know that some if not all of the schematics are marked R and G so that you know how to wire them into the circuit.

[nevetslab]

HRD Pedal Schematic

After looking at another pedal that's not yielding 'Yel', while another one is, and not finding the circuit diagram FOR the pedal, I sketched it out, just so I had it. I see in this exercise how they are creating the 'YELLOW' for the pedal itself, by adjusting the current thru the RED LED portion of the bi-color LED for DRIVE mode indication. But look at the MORE DRIVE circuit (see schematic attached). With CR3 installed as shown on the PCB silkscreen, there isn't a current path that I can see for the RED LED portion of LD2. Yet, it does light up.

HRD Foot Pedal Schematic.pdf

We are getting a psuedo-square wave from the amp, which sources a 27VAC signal thru an 820 ohm 2W resistor, clamped by 10V zeners in the amp, and is applied to the pedal. On the bench, just fixing broken pedals, finding open RED Led's (LD1) and open GRN portions of the Bi-Color LED (LD2), when I apply a current-limited 10VAC sine wave from my generator, or +10V or -10V (1k source) from my bench supply), I get normal behavior on working pedals...using -10V applied for the Drive/More Drive LED & switch function. With CR3 installed as shown, I don't see how the RED LED of LD2 could light up (even though it does). Just to satisfy myself, I flipped it around, so there would be a normal current path, and it works the same, as far as a status indicator on the pedal. But, connecting it to the amp, with CR3 installed in reverse, it will NOT make the amp switch to MORE DRIVE. Putting CR3 back the way it's shown on the PCB and sketched schematic, it DOES switch to MORE DRIVE. Photos of the PCB assy below, followed by the HRD schematic



Hot_Rod_DeVille_Schematic.pdf

It's always the simple circuits that can somehow baffle ya.

[Enzo]

You posted the amp schematic, so look on page 2 at the layout drawing. Their footswitch schematic is there on that page. Compare that to the schematic for the pedal that you drew up.

[nevetslab]

Blinders on again! I never scrolled down to the bottom of the layout! 3.9V zener. That explains it!!

Thanks