Drip Edge '69 Deluxe Reverb Chassis pic for your consideration

[Ethan w]

So I got a drip edge Fender Deluxe Reverb at a guitar show for pretty cheap, I assumed it was a '68. Turns out it was a '69. I thought the changes in caps were interesting and even the wire is a little different, so here it is for people who like this sort of thing. It's stock as of now, even the orange drops are stock. I replaced the bias cap and the cord so far. I have some Ajax blue molded caps lying around, I may change out the reverb channel tone caps and driver just for the hell of it. I'm short one .1/400 blue cap, anyone wanna sell me one? I can paypal you.

Ethan

[pdf64]

Nice, well done! The midrange tonestack caps look smaller than expected; what value are they - 47, 33,or 22nF?

[Ethan w]

Nice, well done! The midrange tonestack caps look smaller than expected; what value are they - 47, 33,or 22nF?

They're .047. I guess those are the brown caps that everyone says are shit, right? One of the filter caps was popped when I got it, it had sprayed goop inside the can. Amp still worked fine oddly enough. I replaced three of them with F&T 16 uf. Not sure why I didn't replace them all, lol. Maybe I didn't have enough on hand. But the amp is good sounding, has a lot of breakup which I guess is good. Currently has a good set of NOS RCA 6V6 and an assortment of preamp tubes. Will tweak the preamps later.

[Tom Phillips]

...I guess those are the brown caps that everyone says are shit, right? ...

People do say that but I have never heard the proof. My theory is that they look like shit AND they showed up in the Fender amps when the popular opinion was that the overall sound performance was taking a turn for the worse. However, I don't think it was those specific caps that were the cause of the problem. Just my opinion and I acknowledge the fact that the debate about the sound of various types of capacitors will never end.

I have seen the type of wiring used in your 1969 amp but I have never come across one that used any stock orange drops. Interesting. The one solder joint visible on the orange drop does seem to look original but it's pretty grainy by the time one zooms in on it.

[Ethan w]

People do say that but I have never heard the proof. My theory is that they look like shit AND they showed up in the Fender amps when the popular opinion was that the overall sound performance was taking a turn for the worse. However, I don't think it was those specific caps that were the cause of the problem. Just my opinion and I acknowledge the fact that the debate about the sound of various types of capacitors will never end.

I have seen the type of wiring used in your 1969 amp but I have never come across one that used any stock orange drops. Interesting. The one solder joint visible on the orange drop does seem to look original but it's pretty grainy by the time one zooms in on it.

Well, here's a better pic. When I got the amp nothing had been changed in the chassis, so it seemed odd that someone would replace JUST those two .022 caps. And the solder joints look original to me. Not sure I've seen orange drops in another Fender of this era, and I've seen a few. Most of the drip edge amps I've had are just like a Blackface inside, excluding Bandmaster Reverbs, which can have some weird shit internally and have no BF counterpart of course. Wish this one was a little closer but it was a good deal and I'm pretty happy with it. It had a shit speaker and no reverb tank/bag/wires so that may have helped the price. But I had all that stuff at home sitting around, including a USA Accutronics tank. Wish I bought more of those when they were available cheaply.

[Tom Phillips]

Well, here's a better pic. When I got the amp nothing had been changed in the chassis, so it seemed odd that someone would replace JUST those two .022 caps. And the solder joints look original to me. Not sure I've seen orange drops in another Fender of this era, and I've seen a few...

I agree. Those solder joints look spot on original. Thanks for posting.

[pdf64]

I wonder when the 225P line was introduced?
I've not seen them in gear prior to 1975.
Recent info says 35 years production of 225P, with the orange drop name being introduced in 1959! Orange Drop Capacitors - Cornell Dubilier | DigiKey

[Justin Thomas]

I got a 69 Dual Showman Reverb with drip edge and that skinnier cloth wiring. I would guess it's a pretty rare combo of features, and conclusive evidence that Fenders don't have rock-solid transition dates. I guess there's a CHANCE it's a 68, with tranny codes of xxx852, but...

I also got a 66 Princeton Reverb with if not original, then period-correct late 66 C10N. Seems a waste of a "good" speaker on a "student amp" for the time, but hey...

Is there a possiblility that OD was changed out soon after the amp was sold, so the joints have all aged similarly? I've seen those in early 70s Ampegs, so... I guess with millions of amps having been made, I doubt that we've "seen it all," even collectively. And it was more important to get the amp working, out the door, and sold, than to wait for each part to match up right.

Justin

Edit: nice score, and kudos for using your ears instead of cap brand to judge. And I like Tom's theory - "looks like, sounds like... "

[Ethan w]

I googled orange drops like you guys did and found this from Craig Anderton: " The Orange Drop capacitor line introduced in the 60s heralded the capacitors of the modern era", and Digikey again "The term Orange Drop Capacitor was first coined in the 1960s by Sprague Capacitor Company, so aptly named for their bright orange epoxy conformal coating.". So it looks like they were probably available by '69. Maybe Fender ran out of .022 Brown Turd caps? But they certainly could have been changed, the install is kind of "leggy" on one of them. But why change one coupling cap and one in the tremolo circuit and NOTHING else? I'm going to keep an eye out for other '69 chassis pics and see if they show up in any other amps. It's a lot harder to find old Fender amps these days, they could be found easily 10 years ago. Now every joker thinks his late 70's Silverface is worth $1000.

Justin, I figure the date stamp in the chassis says it all. Mine is '69 even though I have some '68 tranny and pot codes. I'll bet that Princeton sounds great with the C10N, the stock speaker sure is a tiny magnet piece of crap. Yet the amps are worth hundreds less without it.

Ethan

[Justin Thomas]

I just brought the Princeton up as an example. I think it's thouroughly possible your amp IS original, and so is the Princeton... Probabl is a diiferent matter. But at a factory, when an order is waiting, it's better to lose a few bucks on a single part than a few hundred for a whole amp sale. But both could have also blown their respective parts soon after leaving the factory, too. Who's to say?

If your Deluxe sounds awesome and works as it should, I'd pay full price regardless of a single replaced cap. . I don't quibble over such things. It's notlike the guy who recapped my Concert... and it STILL sounds AWESOME. Even with "modern cheap shit-tird caps!"

And yes, the Princeton does sound quite nice! I'm actually trying to sell it for someone; interesting story. I coulda got it for $300, but I don't believe in taking advantage of people's ignorance. The local music shoppe is another matter entirely!

Justin

[Tom Phillips]

Note how the solder joints holding this Orange Drop 225P are crowned upward.

That and the overall look of the joint are why I think they are factory original solder joints. Fender soldered most of the eyelets from the back side of the board before the parts board subassembly with flying wires was installed in the chassis. The solder crown is thus formed as the solder is pulled down by gravity. You will not find the crowning on the eyelets where transformer and choke wires are attached because they must be soldered after the parts board is installed in the chassis.

I'll look for old Sprague literature or original packaging for additional evidence of when the 225p series became available. Most of the old distribution boxes I saved are for the PS series Orange Drop. That's what the local electronics store stocked back in the day and I bought them because that's what they stocked. Not because they were Orange Drops. They came qty 5 in a hinged plastic box. The boxes were nice to save for other uses but I always thought that the radial leads of the ODs were a pain.

The thing about "Orange Drops" is that there have been many different types of Orange Drop Caps. The differences between the models is so vast that the only common trait between some types of Orange drops is the orange color. (Different dielectric, different shape, different construction, different lead material etc.)

Cheers,
Tom

[Justin Thomas]

Tom,

I never knew they did the boards from the back - I just always thought they used way too much solder. So THAT'S why it's so dang hard to get an original component out of those eyelets someyytimes, the leads are bent under the board. Though I guess their way keeps all those potential pressure points off the backing board. And you don't risk marring the cases of caps with a hot iron. And I doubt any tech who replaced one cap would remove the whole board just to keep the look right...

[pdf64]

Perhaps the Sprague rep came in with some 22nF samples of the new 225P line, and a Fender engineer had them stuck in a production amp to appraise them?

[Tom Phillips]

Tom,

I never knew they did the boards from the back - I just always thought they used way too much solder. So THAT'S why it's so dang hard to get an original component out of those eyelets someyytimes, the leads are bent under the board. Though I guess their way keeps all those potential pressure points off the backing board. And you don't risk marring the cases of caps with a hot iron. And I doubt any tech who replaced one cap would remove the whole board just to keep the look right...

All the components and flying wires were installed, with bent over leads as you mentioned, and then the assembler zipped through the soldering process for all the eyelets really quickly using a big soldering iron the size of one you could use to solder a wire to the chassis.

[Ethan w]

Perhaps the Sprague rep came in with some 22nF samples of the new 225P line, and a Fender engineer had them stuck in a production amp to appraise them?

Tom, I didn't know that about the upside down boards either, interesting. And I thought the same thing about some samples. Hell, I've gotten TONS of IC and transistor samples from big companies, I'm quite sure every cap manufacturer or distributor wanted Fender's business and would give them samples. Someone prolly threw them in the parts bin and one of the girls installed them. I would guess there's a few dozen amps from this same run with OD's in them. If Leo was around then you could be SURE they'd use all the samples, he was notoriously frugal.

Here's the amp and some other stuff I'm playing around with at the moment. I'm using Imgur to host, really fast and easy.

Ethan