Fender super Sonic 22. More clean headroom

[Helmholtz]

Some lower wattage amps simply sound better than their bigger brothers.

[Justin Thomas]

Generally I do agree with this, as I'm one who plays flirting on the edge of clean/slurry, but there is no substitute for a Twin Reverb on 6; even a small amp miked up playing clean isn't the same...
That said, one amp I have always respected for being loud & clean is a Music Man. Not TOO terribly expensive, I don't think, compared to vintage Fenders...

Basically, there is a plethora of potential possiblilities to puzzle out this pernicious problem. But my answer would seriousy be to buy a 4x6L6 amp, just needs 2x12AX7s, don't need any effects & could be had with a single 12".

Justin

[Justin Thomas]

More to the OP's question, I think it's futile for us to try to change the vernacular of the guitar-playing public at large... Our role is probably more "translators," and if we happen across that rare customer who is interested in learning the actual tech definitions then by all means teach.

I think a combination of small changes would go a long way. As far as preamp tube changes I would suggesr a 12AY7, as they require no circuit changes and generally keep the sparkle in. I would be curious to know if the amp's PT would feed 6L6s. No, they won't put out more power, but since they would require more drive than a 6V6, they wouldn't crap out as easliy. That is assuming your preamp & PI are feeding it a clean signal to begin with...

Just from putting a 6L6 in my Champ, it seemed cleaner & a bit "slicier," though it certainly wasn't putting out more power...

I would say consider 7591s, but only if the power tube spckets aren't PCB-mounted.

Good luck on your quest!

Justin

[pdf64]

More to the OP's question, I think it's futile for us to try to change the vernacular of the guitar-playing public at large...

Whilst that's undoubtedly true, if everyone that bothered to search before asking about 'headroom' issues read that the concept / definition of 'headroom', in the context of guitar amps, is kinda nonsensical, and that they should try to explain exactly what they mean without using the 'h' word, then such threads may be a lot shorter and more relevant / useful to their goal

[Helmholtz]

Whilst that's undoubtedly true, if everyone that bothered to search before asking about 'headroom' issues read that the concept / definition of 'headroom', in the context of guitar amps, is kinda nonsensical, and that they should try to explain exactly what they mean without using the 'h' word, then such threads may be a lot shorter and more relevant / useful to their goal

Completely agree, but it might be more efficient, if those in the know would ask the OP what he (or his customer) exactly means with headroom before giving any technical advice based on their own interpretation.

[Chuck H]

Like this?

Another practical consideration is whether by headroom your guy means 'where the volume knob is when the amp starts to break up' or 'I need the amp to be louder'.?. Two very different things that get confused sometimes.

[Jazz P Bass]

Headroom to me is usually applied to something like a LMXXXX voltage regulator.

You need X amount of voltage above the stated output voltage for the device to operate properly.

Now in an amp setup, if you are strumming along nice and mild and the amp sounds good but then you crash a chord and it distorts, that is what musicians refer to as a lack of headroom.

What is happening is that at mild strumming, with the amp already maxed out in clean volume, the hard attack sends a stronger signal to the power amp.
Somewhere in the signal chain the amp is overdriven.

WTH.
I need more headroom!

No.
You need to turn down the clean, lightly strummed part of the story.

The volume must be set for the hardest attack.

That is headroom.

[pdf64]

Headroom to me is usually applied to something like a LMXXXX voltage regulator.

You need X amount of voltage above the stated output voltage for the device to operate properly.

Now in an amp setup, if you are strumming along nice and mild and the amp sounds good but then you crash a chord and it distorts, that is what musicians refer to as a lack of headroom.

What is happening is that at mild strumming, with the amp already maxed out in clean volume, the hard attack sends a stronger signal to the power amp.
Somewhere in the signal chain the amp is overdriven.

WTH.
I need more headroom!

No.
You need to turn down the clean, lightly strummed part of the story.

The volume must be set for the hardest attack.

That is headroom.

Yes that's one way of using the term but I suspect that a lot of players would respond negatively to such advice.
Headroom has a proper definition within professional audio, but it just doesn't seem to apply to guitar amps, or at least gets used in 2 or more ways
So its meaning here is ambiguous at best.
The issue for a lot of guitarists is typically, especially with smaller amps used with a single speaker, that their amp overdrives before the rig generates sufficient SPL for their needs, and they're getting drowned out on stage.
For some reason, they phrase this issue as being a 'headroom problem', rather than just saying 'I can't get a loud clean sound at band levels'.
They may think that 'headroom' is the correct term to describe that, particularly as the word's use has become so ubiquitous in articles and forums, perhaps because it comes across as clever and technical, rather than just using proper words to describe the meaning.

[Arbutt]

I would like to thank you all for your advice and comments

I have replaced v1 for a 5751.
Both 12at7s were not well balanced
Tested on a orange tube tester.
I replaced both the at7s
I'm happy with it. Customer tried it this morning.
We was pleased . Not a massive amount of change. But enough . He won't know until he gets to a gig .

Many thanks. Job now closed

[Helmholtz]

Like this?

Yes, you did ask. I am blaming myself for not clarifying right from the start. Many guitar players do not understand why their (small) amp cannot produce the same loudness levels for clean and distorted sounds.

But after this answer of the OP:

In his words were. When I turn up to about 4. It just breaks up too early. He would like it to break up later giving him more cleaner head room .
So I can have a louder cleaner sound

it could have been clear, what was meant.

After all I do not think the discussion was too off target and the OP obviously found some useful improvement advice.