Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 4 x 10 Speaker Replacement

[Leo_Gnardo]

results are not even half bad

Indeed! Hail the mighty EV ! ! ! FWIW late 60's some smart salesman in the NY area was marketing EV SRO-12's relabeling them as "Blo-Out-Pruf". Offered the guarantee - wreck this speaker and we will replace at no cost. $75 each. That's the spirit!

Meanwhile lately I've had a Deluxe Reverb AND a tweed Vibrolux come in with EV 12's. They never gonna blow up, that's for sure!

[TimmyP1955]

I don't know for sure that the Jensen P10 fits, but we have them in some pretty good sounding amps.

[nickb]

The ruler is level. The Celestion is about 6mm taller than the original. The depth of the original is about 4 & 7/8 in (129mm).

[Helmholtz]

The ruler is level. The Celestion is about 6mm taller than the original. The depth of the original is about 4 & 7/8 in (129mm).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52797[/ATTACH]

What is the depth of the frame of the original (without magnet). You can find corresponding dimensions (72.5mm) in the Jensen links I posted above.

[nickb]

To the frame 58mm. To the magnet 129mm.

The C10R is 60.5mm to the frame and 87.3mm to the magnet. I think we have a winner.

[Helmholtz]

To the frame 58mm. To the magnet 129mm.

The C10R is 60.5mm to the frame and 87.3mm to the magnet. I think we have a winner.

Not quite sure how you measure. The Jensen catalog shows an over-all depth of 95.3mm for the C10R.

[nickb]

I'm looking at this:

[Helmholtz]

I'm looking at this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52798[/ATTACH]

Adding up measures from you drawing results in 94.3mm total height/depth. Strangely enough, as the full catalog specifies 95.3mm total.

[nickb]

Adding up measures from you drawing results in 94.3mm total height/depth. Strangely enough, as the full catalog specifies 95.3mm total.

Indeed yes, thx. I took the 87.3 as starting at the baffle.

Measuring the existing one more carefully the frame height is 67mm and the magnet is 99mm, The C10R is about 68mm and 95.3mm. I have one on order so we'll find out soon enough.

[J M Fahey]

There are various heights there, which amount to different total height depending on where you measure.

First they stamp the basic frame, which being a truncated cone has a "mouth" diameter (wood panel side) and a "base diameter" (and basic height away from wood panel) and then with a second die they stamp an extra "bump" where magnetic system actually stands.

That is done in 2 separate operations so they split the job to get different magnet-to-mouth distances as needed.

The large complicated main frame die set is very expensive and needs a huge press; the "bumper" die is way simpler, cheaper, and requires a way smaller press.

So in both your speakers magnet to mouth distance is basically the same (might have 1 mm difference) but main base to mouth distance is not, by 6 mm, because bumps are also different.

Does not seem much but some crazy designer might have been so tight that one fits and the other one does not.

If you ordered a C10R please repeat the comparison picture.

And please put them on a piece of wood or something, carpet is fuzzy and objects slightly get inside it, so not good for precise measurements in a picture

FWIW this is my 10" frame, with a "Q" sized magnet (104mm) and voice coil (32mm):











Panel edge to wide base: 54mm

Panel edge to bumped base (which I make larger than Eminence and Celestion used because I may fit an up to 130mm magnet, to make a "C10N" equivalent, the mythical 10" C12N version) : 65mm

So bump itself is quite deep 10mm

Some dimensions do not seem to add up, but remember sheet metal thickness (16ga)

C10R is, magnetic system to mouth, = main frame (including bump) + edge thickmess= 65.5 + 4.5 mm = 70mm deep.

While mine is 65 mm total, edge to magnetic plate; conclusion being that if you can´t solve it now, suggest your customer to import an Argentine speaker he he.

Pity Courier is so d*mn expensive though, a deal killer

[SoulFetish]

worst case scenario, can you front mount? Or perhaps, if you are still unable to find a suitable speaker that has the clearance, the one off could be re-coned.

in any case, we get these in all the time, and I'm sure we've done these speakers before. So I sent my boss a text to see if he has a recommendation

[Rhodesplyr]

How someone managed to blow all four I'll never know. That's determination for ya.

I saw a Blues Deville 4x10 with similar speaker damage, but the owner knew what happened. One of his friends tried using it as a bass amp, and, being a bass player, he cranked the bass in an open-backed cabinet. This caused one speaker to fail, which then divided the amp power among three speakers instead of four, which put more stress on each remaining speaker, which caused another to fail and so forth.

Even though many bass cabs are 4x10, they use drivers that can handle bass, in appropriately loaded cabinets. The speakers Fender used in HRDs and BDVs don't do so well in this application. They are guitar amps, not bass amps.

[nickb]

I saw a Blues Deville 4x10 with similar speaker damage, but the owner knew what happened. One of his friends tried using it as a bass amp, and, being a bass player, he cranked the bass in an open-backed cabinet. This caused one speaker to fail, which then divided the amp power among three speakers instead of four, which put more stress on each remaining speaker, which caused another to fail and so forth.

Even though many bass cabs are 4x10, they use drivers that can handle bass, in appropriately loaded cabinets. The speakers Fender used in HRDs and BDVs don't do so well in this application. They are guitar amps, not bass amps.

Evidently

I found out that "The Destuctor", as they shall henceforth be known, was a big Grunge player who liked it loud. It just goes to show that the rule of thumb for speaker rating = 2 x nominal amp power for guitar is not so conservative. It's all those pesky square waves.

Still waiting for the Jensen. For those in the UK I ordered from hotrox. They used to be quite speedy but the last two orders were slow. It took them two full days to even get around to shipping it this time. Could do better, as they say.

[Rhodesplyr]

It's all those pesky square waves.

One of the ways a voice coil dissipates heat is by radiating it into the top plate; the metal edge of the cap actually conducts heat away from the coil better than air. With square waves, the coil spends more of each cycle partially outside the gap, reducing cooling compared to a sine wave, so square waves do cook voice coils to destructive temps.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I found out that "The Destuctor", as they shall henceforth be known, was a big Grunge player who liked it loud.

Has The Destructor dialed down his need for excessive volume? I hope so, or he's going to find himself in the same pickle again, soon enough. Tougher speakers would be the answer, but which fit into the space allotted?