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Matchless DC30 Combo EF86 Pentode Microphonics

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  • Matchless DC30 Combo EF86 Pentode Microphonics

    This is the third Matchless DC30 Combo amp that’s come into the shop in the past month….two from an outside client, and this latest one from our rental inventory. This one was shrieking. When I saw that label written on the gaffer’s tape on the cabinet, my mind went to the EF86 Pentode circuit of Ch 2. Powered it up, and sure enough, turn the Ch 2 Volume up, and it’s shrieking…acoustic feedback with that tube making like it’s a microphone too close to the PA System monitor speaker. And, rotating the tone switch, yup…there’s the familiar microphonic behavior of that circuit.

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    The previous two DC30’s I serviced, one had the Switchcraft L12A input jacks not making good contact on the Normal’s, so they were behaving like ungrounded inputs with nothing plugged in. Not so bad to deal with on Ch 1, but add that to the microphonic EF86 Pentode of Ch 2 and it was nasty. Cleaning the jack’s normals and re-tensioning the contacts was easy enough. I didn’t have any spare EF86 pentodes on hand. I looked thru the 9-pin Pentodes I had salvaged from some old Tektronix gear, but the best candidate didn’t have the same pinout, so I did what I could with the component leads on the shock-mounted tube socket. That particular tube I did manage to reseat a few times, and got it to cease with it’s microphonic behavior….just ended up with the white tube noise. The other amp didn’t have that problem.

    But this one, now having ordered a TAD EF86 tube as a spare for the client’s next trip, I at least had that to try. I unplugged what was installed…a J/J EF806 pentode. I plugged in the TAD EF86, and still had the microphonic issues, so I pulled the chassis, remembering there’s little I could do with the stiff component leads of the parts glued together and parked directly above the tube socket itself. I played with the lead dress as best I could, though didn’t make any success.

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    I did try inserting some 0.031” thick silicon rubber strip, cut to the circumference of the tube, and inserting it into the inside wall of the tube socket which serves as the anchor for the spring-loaded tube shield, but like the previous DC30’s, that tube diameter is ever-so-much larger than the ECC83S tubes, that you can’t insert the EF86 tube with that rubber strip.

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    I had inserted some thick paper between the tube socket flange and the tube, which seemed to help before. Not this time. I then tried some thin white packing foam I had tucked away, thin enough to cut and fit inside the tube shield to cushion the glass and did just fit. That seemed to help a little, so I put the chassis back into the cabinet.

    Just what I was afraid of. When I powered it up and turned Ch 2’s volume up, it was shrieking again. Acoustic feedback....added the speakers into the picture, which I didn't have over on the test stand. I removed the tube shield, and the shrieking stopped. I removed the foam insert, put the shield back into place, and it had still remained stopped. Just had the microphonics to contend with.

    I don’t have the schematic for this DC30, and, I was a little reluctant to start reducing the circuit gain to combat these two microphonic tubes. Is the solution having enough of a collection of these pentodes to select thru and find the ones that aren’t microphonic? Any other suggestions?
    Last edited by nevetslab; 03-03-2020, 11:55 PM.
    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

  • #2
    Try finding nos European tubes,I never had problems like this.

    Comment


    • #3
      FWIW: I've had good luck with the old Mullard EF86/6267 like this one:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Mullar...YAAOSwP0ZeS~s6

      The link is only for example and photos, but if you search eBay, you can find them.
      "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

      Comment


      • #4
        EF86 RFT (Former East Germany) are quality tubes and it´s is possible to buy them in quantities through ebay. They are the ones I use regularly.

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        • #5
          I sent one of those out in a 2xEL34 build I did a few years ago. No complaints yet.

          Justin
          "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
          "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
          "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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          • #6
            I have half a dozen EF86 pulls from the old Akai M8 amps I guitar-ized. Willing to sell inexpensively. See:

            https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32979
            --
            I build and repair guitar amps
            http://amps.monkeymatic.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by xtian View Post
              I have half a dozen EF86 pulls from the old Akai M8 amps I guitar-ized. Willing to sell inexpensively. See:

              https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32979
              Can you testify to their suitability regarding microphonocs?
              "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

              "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

              "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
              You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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              • #8
                FWIW: I've never investigated why, maybe interaction with circuit capacitance, bias, etc.? But, I've found an EF86 that is microphonic in one circuit may not be in another. So, just because one is microphonic in whatever you're currently working on, don't toss it. It may work just fine the next time you need one.
                "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                  Can you testify to their suitability regarding microphonocs?
                  I cannot. I can say, the eight Akai M8/Roberts 770 units I refurbed had 100% success rate on all original tubes, electrolytics, and all components.
                  --
                  I build and repair guitar amps
                  http://amps.monkeymatic.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by xtian View Post
                    I cannot. I can say, the eight Akai M8/Roberts 770 units I refurbed had 100% success rate on all original tubes, electrolytics, and all components.
                    Fair enough. Though a RTR probably wouldn't have the same sensitivity to microphonics as a guitar amp. "I" probably wouldn't vendor something in this circumstance without positive awareness of it's suitability as a probable solution. Would you be willing to offer a refund of all expenses (purchase and shipping) if the tubes prove microphonic in this guitar amp?
                    "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                    "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                    You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The designs like the Matchless and the early AC30 that used the EF86 in the first stage are more susceptible to microphonics than designs that use a pentode as the second tube. Merlin had some info on this in his preamp book. The Matchless design also gets special consideration in his book since it has higher than normal gain out of the one stage and is particularly prone to microphonics. Old stock EF86 designs are better than new, but the way the amp is designed to use the pentode is probably ultimately the culprit.

                      Greg

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                        Would you be willing to offer a refund of all expenses (purchase and shipping) if the tubes prove microphonic in this guitar amp?
                        No, I can't test them, and won't offer a warranty. But srsly, I'm not looking to profit. If you want to pay for shipping, they're yours.
                        --
                        I build and repair guitar amps
                        http://amps.monkeymatic.com

                        Comment

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