Old Symphonic Record Player

[spartadrive_in]

Well, it is a mechanical problem, and has nothing to do with resistors or caps or transformers.

Yes I know. That's what I said. But wondering if anyone was familiar with the mechanics of the arm.

[Enzo]

There are 8,000,000 mechanical turntable designs. They are all very similar, but each one is unique. very hard to tell you what is binding. A cam follower may have left its track, a mechanical link may have come off, some foreign object could be in the works. And a common problem with old turntables is they won't turn. The lube gets hard and binds it up so you can barely rotate teh thing using force. Have to take it apart, clean off the old lube and put a nice light coating of grease/oil on the works. If the table won't tirn, then the linkages that it drives won't move either.

[Mars Amp Repair]

Well, it is a mechanical problem, and has nothing to do with resistors or caps or transformers.

OH MY!! ;- ]

Yeah, either the tone arm shaft has dried up grease on it or the mechanism that engages during record cycling is not disengaging during normal play. does the mech cycle properly..ie; lift the arm off the rest, drop the records, move onto the record? This is basically an old version of the VM (Voice of Music) turntable.

Believe it or not I have an old portable Philco 'record player' in the shop now. I'll take a quick look at the mech & see if I can come up with anything for you...it's been mannnny years since I messed with one of those....g

[spartadrive_in]

There are 8,000,000 mechanical turntable designs. They are all very similar, but each one is unique. very hard to tell you what is binding. A cam follower may have left its track, a mechanical link may have come off, some foreign object could be in the works. And a common problem with old turntables is they won't turn. The lube gets hard and binds it up so you can barely rotate teh thing using force. Have to take it apart, clean off the old lube and put a nice light coating of grease/oil on the works. If the table won't tirn, then the linkages that it drives won't move either.

NO the table DOES turn. Everything does it isjust that I can not pull the arm inwards. Like something is "locked".

The record loads and the needle comes into position it just doesn't gradually glide along.

[spartadrive_in]

OH MY!! ;- ]

Yeah, either the tone arm shaft has dried up grease on it or the mechanism that engages during record cycling is not disengaging during normal play. does the mech cycle properly..ie; lift the arm off the rest, drop the records, move onto the record? This is basically an old version of the VM (Voice of Music) turntable.

Believe it or not I have an old portable Philco 'record player' in the shop now. I'll take a quick look at the mech & see if I can come up with anything for you...it's been mannnny years since I messed with one of those....g

Yes the record DOES drop and the arm comes into place. It just does not gradually glide during play. When I switch it to REJECT it does what it should. Turntable stops and arm goes to "home".

Thank you. Let me know when you do.

[Enzo]

In that case, I fall back on the something in the works or a cam follower out of its tracks.

Look underneath and move the arm back and forth, maybe you can see what is stopping the free motion. Once we know what is in the way, we can figure out why.

[spartadrive_in]

HaHa. OK I figured it out. Just some small arm was out of position. It's OK now.

Although my TONE control does not do anything? I don't think it could be the pot (I tested it with a VOM and it measured good) Could it be with the caps I replaced? They both connect to lugs on that pot (see pic) It's the pot on the right.

[spartadrive_in]

ALSO...

Also my speed selector switch acts up. 78 RPM is constant but 33 sort of varies. The others won't even run. It will slow down and I guess act as "OFF".

I assume it must be a bad switch. I haven't gone under there to probe around yet. Any ideas?

SORRY I keep asking for help. I just know THIS is where I can get it. and I'm learning a lot from you guys.

[Enzo]

I doubt it is the switch, it is mechanical. The motor spins at a constant speed

Pop the platter and look at the drive - I believe that is how to access on yours. You'll have to remove the C clip on the center shaft of the platter

Most of these have an idler wheel from the motor shaft to the platter. When yuo shift speeds it moves the idler assembly up and down so the idler wheel hits a different point on the motor shaft. The motor shaft is sort of a step sided cone - usually a brass piece screwed to the shaft. The idler hits the various diameter steps of this shaft and transfers that varying speed to the platter.

Various things go wrong.

One, the motor is usually mounted on some soft rubber grommets. If the rubber grommets break down, the motor drops lower and the idler wheel hits the motor shaft at the wrong point and might even miss is completely on some settings.

Two, the oil on the motor shaft and idler shaft dries out and the lube on the platter dries out, so the puny little motor cannot turn it well. The 78 is fast and higher torque, but the slower speeds cannot pull as hard. Oil the motor both ends, oil the idler shaft, clean out the old lube and replace it on the platter. Can you spin the platter and it keeps going while OFF? Pull the idler assembly away from the motor shaft against its spring and see if it will spin freely.

Three, the rubber on the idler gets old and hard and cannot grip the shaft and platter surfaces. We can replace the idler wheel whole, or replace the tire on it, or rejuve the rubber. Mineral spirits will clean and rejuve the rubber. wipe some on repeatedly until a little rubberiness comes back to it. Gasoline works too but is a lot more dangerous. DO not soak the rubber in the mineral spirits, if you leave it too long the rubber will swell up huge.

Mineral spirits is used as a paint thinner, and is cheap. FInd it wherever paint is sold and at hardware stores.

FOur, the inner surface of the platter edge where the idler tire bears, and the motor shaft itself build up muck - combination rubber dust and oil gunk. Clean this stuff off with mineral spiirits or alcohol.

Five - not likely but.... too much free oil and the idler wheel is slipping.

There you go: lack of torque, loose motor, no grip, stiff lube. I'd bet on those.

[Dave Curtis, dB AudioTech]

If it were me, I'd get a 10w cement resistor.

The 50C5 definitely belongs in the center, the 35W4 goes on the end.

Right in the center of the photo, that large yellow cylider with wax oozing out the end, that and its similar friends likely need replacing.

Interesting tone control.

I'd go with a 10W also. And I don't think that wax is oozing out; that's the way those old (Cornell-Dublier?) P&O caps were made. They were sealed with wax. I've still got a bunch in my old Stromberg Carlson AU-33 and it works great. It certainly won't hurt to replace them, but I'm just saying they're probably OK.

Oh, and the phonograph is a mid to late '57, I think.

[spartadrive_in]

I'd go with a 10W also. And I don't think that wax is oozing out; that's the way those old (Cornell-Dublier?) P&O caps were made. They were sealed with wax. I've still got a bunch in my old Stromberg Carlson AU-33 and it works great. It certainly won't hurt to replace them, but I'm just saying they're probably OK.

Oh, and the phonograph is a mid to late '57, I think.

Well I have already replaced the caps and the resistors are 5W since I had those on hand. Shouldn't be the end of the world though right?

So '57 huh? How can you tell?

[Enzo]

Dave, they made the caps with wax, but it usually didn't stay put. When they age, the stuff starts to explore the world around it. When those caps were new, the ends were nice rounded nice looking things. They didn't take nice caps and hand dip them into a pool of wax, they looked like real professional parts. Heat under the chassis and the fact that wax is really a viscous fluid means that eventually the wax sealer will migrate out and away from the cap. When I see the ends of a waxed paper cap bulging out and trying to escape, that is my sign it needs replacement.

[Enzo]

Looks like a 1957 date code on the can cap.

[Dave Curtis, dB AudioTech]

Dave, they made the caps with wax, but it usually didn't stay put. When they age, the stuff starts to explore the world around it. When those caps were new, the ends were nice rounded nice looking things. They didn't take nice caps and hand dip them into a pool of wax, they looked like real professional parts. Heat under the chassis and the fact that wax is really a viscous fluid means that eventually the wax sealer will migrate out and away from the cap. When I see the ends of a waxed paper cap bulging out and trying to escape, that is my sign it needs replacement.

Agreed. Especially right next to a hot resistor. Definitely nothing wrong with replacing them. Now, about that electrolytic... 50 years is really pushing it, but if it's working, I guess it's OK for now.

[Dave Curtis, dB AudioTech]

Well I have already replaced the caps and the resistors are 5W since I had those on hand. Shouldn't be the end of the world though right?

Not at all. How warm does it get? More importantly, how's it sound?

So '57 huh? How can you tell?

The number 427738 on the can cap. The 427 is the manufacturer and 738 is the date; 7 being the year (57 or 67), and 38 being the week. Since they weren't using those waxed caps in 67, it would be 57. 1958 is probably more likely since it would take a while for that cap to find it way into your record player.

Speaking of which, a 50 year-old electrolytic is living on borrowed time...