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Traynor YBA-1 BM help troubleshoot hum creeping in (caps updated)

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  • Traynor YBA-1 BM help troubleshoot hum creeping in (caps updated)

    Hi All, I've been battling some noise issues and could really use some outside opinions and expertise. I have a Traynor YBA-1 Bassmaster on the bench and it's seems there's a measured 60hz hum that creeps in (up to about half volt). This usually takes between 10-30 seconds to become audible. The longer the amp sits the longer it takes to creep in.

    Currently - I can ground V1 coupling caps (or pots) and it's pretty much gone. When I ground the V1 grids it's still there (or worse). I feel like that's where it's creeping in.

    Background - the amp's of course been worked on prior, maybe multiple times. Some of the plate load resistors were updated. The power cable updated. I updated all electrolytic caps, node dropping resistors, screen resistor (1 470/10w per schem), filter resistor 470/10w, originally I had what I thought was a better grounding scheme but in chasing my tail I've moved grounds back where they were stock (moved caps closer to where they were stock too). Changed AC cable, the power switch broke so I put the power on the polarity switch and swapped chassis holes.

    In general - I've tested most resistors, diodes measure about right in circuit, voltages by and large look good, AC on B+ about 2.9v, very low ripple on bias. I wasn't seeing much for voltage on the other side of coupling caps.

    Per request I installed a LarMar style MV, nfb control, upped some mixer and PI resistors, changed grid input wires to shielded. 1 ohm cathode resistors so I could easier juggle tubes, bias trimmer/network. In back tracing and second guessing I've reverted most "mods" back to stock (in case my layout was bad/it's easy enough to redo later). I feel like I've juggled or swapped all tubes. I've tried to put the lead dress back as close to pictures as I could. At one point there were multiple sources of noise, lead dress cleanup helped a lot. One time when I wiggled V1 it seemed like some buzz occurred so I dremel cleaned the plug-in side of the socket, in the event of some carbon or something I couldn't see. All tube pins re-tension'd. Tightened jacks to chassis.

    The amp actually sounds great otherwise, the new filters sound tight. I don't have a good point of reference to the noise floor pre-updates, I now wish I'd spent more time with it loud. Sometimes it gets to the point where you start second guessing everything, I trust we've all been there. Any thoughts much appreciated.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    I thought there were attachments, will try again

    traynor_bassmaster_yba1.pdf

    Click image for larger version

Name:	yba1bm_pic.jpg
Views:	363
Size:	1.26 MB
ID:	913357

    Hum.m4a

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    • #3
      Have you replaced C20 and C19? Those are the bias filter caps and the bias circuit is running at 60Hz.
      Originally posted by Enzo
      I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


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      • #4
        Hey G1, I forgot to mention I did, and even reverted the 68uf in case I'd received a bad new cap (not impossible).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by g1 View Post
          Have you replaced C20 and C19? Those are the bias filter caps and the bias circuit is running at 60Hz.
          I guess you mean C14/C15?

          Edit : Just noticed that the two schematics show different bias circuits and component designators.
          Last edited by Helmholtz; 09-13-2020, 10:29 PM.
          - Own Opinions Only -

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          • #6
            Sorry for any confusion, the yellow schem is the one I'm using (taken right from the amp lid). The PDF is for backup/reference only (as it may be different).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by antrecords View Post
              even reverted the 68uf in case I'd received a bad new cap (not impossible).
              What do you mean with "reverted"? An ecap that is or was operated with wrong polarity is most likely damaged and no longer reliable. C19 needs to have its positive terminal grounded.

              - Own Opinions Only -

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

                What do you mean with "reverted"? An ecap that is or was operated with wrong polarity is most likely damaged and no longer reliable. C19 needs to have its positive terminal grounded.
                Both caps are + to ground, output tubes not redplating or anything either. The new cap was removed and replaced with the original, 68uf, just to see if there was funny business there.

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=antrecords;n913351]
                  Currently - I can ground V1 coupling caps (or pots) and it's pretty much gone. When I ground the V1 grids it's still there (or worse). I feel like that's where it's creeping in.QUOTE]

                  Did you try a different tube in V1? THat position doesn't have cathode bypass caps which makes the circuit susceptible to heater-cathode leakage. Some chinese tubes and probably others as well suffer from this problem.

                  - Own Opinions Only -

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                  • #10
                    OK, hum coming in through V1. Resistors don't make hum. You say you FEEL like you juggled tubes. First, PULL V1, hum go away? Now, no swapping places. Take a 12AX7 from some other amp or w new one from a box and stick it in V1. Hum still gone or hum come back?

                    Do the volume controls control the level of hum? Do both channels have the same amount of hum?

                    Your heater winding shows as center tapped. Is it, and if so is the ground connection intact? If it has a virtual CT - the two resistors - are they healthy? (As in not burnt open)
                    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                    • #11
                      Helmholtz, thanks for your tips, I'll likely add cathode bypass caps when I can A/B some sounds. To answer you and Enzo: I did juggle 3-4 used tubes in that position. But I'll be damned, I just took another ECC83 out of the box and popped it in, the hum is now about .04 volts (when problematic was near half volt). It's a bit perplexing, the (I think used) tubes were Tung Sol Russia (x2), Groove Tubes/Sovtek 12AX7WA.

                      I'll have to test it a little more. But unless something just got jostled I feel like it's better. So I can learn from this what would that be, heater-cathode leakage in multiple instances? Thanks guys.

                      Enzo if curious this one has CT wire right to the filter cap grounds on the chassis.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by antrecords View Post
                        Helmholtz, thanks for your tips, I'll likely add cathode bypass caps when I can A/B some sounds.
                        Adding cathode bypass caps (e.g. 22µF) will increase gain by almost a factor 2 (+6dB).

                        - Own Opinions Only -

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