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Crown Macro-Tech 2402 and output transistors

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  • Crown Macro-Tech 2402 and output transistors

    I am repairing a Crown Macro-Tech 2402 that has channel one not working. Good thing there are two channels to compare readings with!

    I've attached a schematic for the 2400/2401, but it seems they renumbered components when they went from 2400/2401 to the 2402.

    First problem I found is that one of the 0.2 ohm 5W resistors (R18 on the board, one of R306-308 on the schematic) reads 80k in the circuit. I pulled and replaced that.

    Then I measured across all of the PNP transistors and read 22 ohm (same readings as channel 2 equivalents). All looked good on this half so far. All of the NPN transistors matched channel 2 readings. While still not powered, I continued to test components in the circuit and compare them to channel 2 same points. It appeared that D06? (same diode type as D09 on the board right above it) was shorted. After lifting a leg, the diode tested good. I pulled the transistor (Q10 on board marked C8188-2, one of C306-308 on the schematic) associated with the failed resistor and tested it. The two pins measured as expected, but now the short that I was chasing on the board was no longer there. Then I tested continuity from each pin of Q10 to the case and found a short between one of the pins and the case.

    For test purposes, I reinstalled the transistor with a mica pad and used insulated washers to secure it to the heatsink and remeasured resistances and diode checks across the components that previously were reading bad. I powered up and have solid signal passing all the way thru each channel, though I did not push the signal to full power.

    So now I got to thinking more on this. Even though it's back to "working", Q10 transistor is just not producing power since I have isolated the transistor case, thus it's not providing any operation of that transistor. What would a suitable transistor replacement be? Can I get by with only replacing this one? If not, which pairs or sets should I be replacing? All of the high side C8188-2 PNP transistors? Both high and low PNP transistors? High side PNP and NPN? Other? Thanks!
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Delta362; 12-14-2020, 11:08 AM.

  • #2
    Q10 is bad.
    The 'short' across D06 was a dead give away.
    Probably an Emitter to Collector short.
    Crown sells their transistors color coded for current matching.
    You could use an MJ21194G or give Crown Audio a call and see what they recommend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the info, Jazz! I'll contact Crown tomorrow as I'm sure they're closed today. I'll let you know what they say.

      Comment


      • #4
        ...
        Last edited by Delta362; 12-14-2020, 11:10 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I spoke with Crown. They do not have any replacements and tech support didn't offer much guidance other than to refer me to the service manual.

          With that, should I replace only the one bad PNP transistor with MJ21193G, or should I be replacing the bank of 3 on the high side output? The 3 high side NPN outputs? All 6 of the same PNP type? Would I need to replace the other 6 NPN MJ21194G as well then to keep them matched? Just trying to understand how many and which one(s) I would need to replace for proper operation. Thanks!
          Last edited by Delta362; 12-14-2020, 03:38 PM.

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          • #6
            Still looking for proper guidance on which set(s) of transistors I would need to replace in this case given that I have one failed transistor in the high side PNP output. I'll be going with at least one MJ21193G (for Q10), but am leery of the load sharing between them if one of the three is different. So I'm thinking at a minimum I should replace the set of 3 high side PNP outputs with MJ21193G.

            Do I need to be concerned with any of the other banks of three? The schematic has banks of three for each - high side PNP, high side NPN, low side PNP, and low side NPN. Thank you!

            Comment


            • #7
              The outputs need to be at least approximately matched, or the 'hot' one will fail under stress. If you get three new ones, they're more likely to be close in characteristics than one random new one is to the two older ones. I'd check them with an hfe tester just to make sure (and that will only check the hfe using a small current, they may not stay matched under heavy load).

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks, Mark! So I only really need to worry about the grouping of three from my failed transistor bank and not any of the other banks, correct?

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                • #9
                  Well, ideally the 'top' and 'bottom' set on each channel would be matched as well, but that gets difficult. Matching the three outputs sharing current is the most important thing.

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                  • #10
                    Got the three MJ21193G PNP transistors today. I measured the hfe and voltage drop on the two good ones (Q8 and Q9) that were also being replaced in the set of failed Q10. I compared those to the three new ones I received today. Old ones had hfe of 85 and 545-547mV. New ones ranged from 70-75hfe and 545-550mV on my tester. I installed the new ones and adjusted R2 and R33 bias pots to read 320mV (between 310-330mV per service manual) across R9 and R25. One of the bias pots was pretty much spot on. The other one required a little tweak to get it into spec.

                    From what I've read, I need to check and possibly adjust the ODEP. On the larger board (Main board) connecting the two channels, I found the two ODEP adjust pots (R186 and R300) that the service manual references, but I'm not finding TP100-5 and TP100-10. Any ideas where I should be looking for these? Would these points be on this same board, or on Channel 1 output board? Other? Thanks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you biased according to specs, you shouldn't need to mess with ODEP adjustments.
                      "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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                      • #12
                        Great! Thanks, The Dude!

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