1979 Super Reverb - Distortion on Vibrato Channel

[vintagekiki]

Clearly the signal at V3 anodes will also be clipped.

Red color indicates the signal path from the input tube (V2a) vibrato channel to the phase inverter (V6)
Question
Does the signal on its way to the phase inverter (V6) use tube V3 ?

[Helmholtz]

Does the signal on its way to the phase inverter (V6) use tube V3 ?

When V3 goes into grid conduction, its input resistance drops significantly. This means that V2B is forced to deliver increased signal current.
This additional current causes an instantaneous voltage drop across the source/output impedance of V2B resulting in voltage distortion of the dry signal.

[vintagekiki]

The red color on the schematic indicates the signal path.
Question.
Will the vibrato channel work if you remove V3
Or
which is the function of tube V3 in schematic

[pdf64]

The red color on the schematic indicates the signal path.
Question.
Will the vibrato channel work if you remove V3

Yes.
Any clipping that V3 might cause to the dry signal path would be eliminated by the removal of the valve in that socket.

V3 is the reverb driver, as previously noted.

[vintagekiki]

What kind of clipping is the story when the signal on its way DOES NOT PASS through V3.

[Helmholtz]

The red color on the schematic indicates the signal path.

Your red line shows the signal VOLTAGE path only. But there is an additional signal CURRENT going to the V3 input.
As long as this additional current is very low, it doesn't influence the dry signal voltage.
But when V3 exhibits grid conduction in positive signal peaks, the additional current momentarily increases and causes signal voltage distortion at the V2B plate.

[vintagekiki]

I'm sorry for the freedom of expression but the rhetoric is starting to disappoint me.
Which additional signal is in question, which current is in question when signal on its way DOES NOT PASS through V3.

[Helmholtz]

I'm sorry for the freedom of expression but the rhetoric is starting to disappoint me.
Which additional signal is in question, which current is in question when signal on its way DOES NOT PASS through V3.

Grid conduction means that the grid passes current (like a diode between grid and ground).

[vintagekiki]

The coupling capacitor on the g1 tube V3 is a 500pF / 600V ceramic. Which grid conduction is the story?
And
Will the amplifier work if you remove V3?

[Helmholtz]

MInd you, the effect is not very strong, but noticeable. The additional load is limited by the impedance of the 500pF coupling cap (around 300k@1kHz).
The vib channel on Fender amps typically sounds cleaner if you remove V3.

[vintagekiki]

We agreed on at least one.
The Fender amps typically sounds cleaner if you remove V3 and amplifier will work if you remove V3.

If you remove V3, capacitor 500pF, resistor 1M and further is integral part schematic.
I definitely don't understand talking about additional load, about grid conduction, about, about ... ...

[Helmholtz]

We agreed on at least one.
The Fender amps typically sounds cleaner if you remove V3 and amplifier will work if you remove V3.

If you remove V3, capacitor 500pF, resistor 1M and further is integral part schematic.
I definitely don't understand talking about additional load, about grid conduction, about, about ... ...

When the V3 grid signal amplitude exceeds around 10V, grid conduction starts, Grid conduction means that the grid goes low impedance, shunting the 1M grid leak resistor.
This means that V2B suddenly sees a lower load resistance, causing signal distortion.

[vintagekiki]

Dear colleague, what say ...
About which 10V you keep talking when 1.5V is nicely written on the schematic.
What is your the analysis if capacitor 500pF, resistor 1M is integral part schematic but V3 is remove.

[Helmholtz]

Dear colleague, what say ...
About which 10V you keep talking when 1.5V is nicely written on the schematic.
What is your the analysis if capacitor 500pF, resistor 1M is integral part schematic but V3 is remove.

Oh well, you should be aware that the 1.5V V3 input level refers to an input voltage of 3.5mV.
Real guitar pickups can deliver up to 100 times larger signal voltage at attack.
Distortion occurs, when load resistance abruptly changes with instantaneous voltage level.

[vintagekiki]

Do we speak engineering or compete like in a market?
On schematics it says what it says, and says 3.5mV.
If a guitar processor connected to the input jack of amplifier, the voltage from the processor can be up to 1V.
Fender engineers say 3.5mV, and that’s the basis for any engineering discussion. Everything else "what would it be like if it were" leads to nothing.
Since the discussion has long since left engineering flows, has already become a story in vain, I