Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sunn 200S Power Supply Help

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I just read about a guy who's garage door opener had developed reduced range from the transmitter. He tracked it down to new LED lights in his garage.
    Lots of new tech causing odd issues.
    "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

    Comment


    • #47
      Using a solid state rectifier allows you to use higher than 60uF capacitance in the first stage. These amps use pretty high voltage that often goes over 500V for sure and approaches 600V on occasion. The earlier 200S amps with the Dynaco transformers will have lower voltages than the later amps with the Schumacher transformers. That high voltage in these amps is why series connected caps in the first stage are a good idea because they get you a higher voltage capability. The 220uF in series for a 100uF stage is probably from a post I did on the Sunn forum over a decade ago. The higher capacitance in that first stage makes for a tighter bass response and for a bass amp that is a good thing for most bass players. The amp holds up just fine with the higher capacitance too. Sounds like you have it working again with a lower value, which is fine. If you like it roll with it.

      Greg

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by soundmasterg View Post
        Using a solid state rectifier allows you to use higher than 60uF capacitance in the first stage. These amps use pretty high voltage that often goes over 500V for sure and approaches 600V on occasion. The earlier 200S amps with the Dynaco transformers will have lower voltages than the later amps with the Schumacher transformers. That high voltage in these amps is why series connected caps in the first stage are a good idea because they get you a higher voltage capability. The 220uF in series for a 100uF stage is probably from a post I did on the Sunn forum over a decade ago. The higher capacitance in that first stage makes for a tighter bass response and for a bass amp that is a good thing for most bass players. The amp holds up just fine with the higher capacitance too. Sounds like you have it working again with a lower value, which is fine. If you like it roll with it.

        Greg
        Interesting. I am thinking of upping the first stage capacitance. Especially since there is about 585V there.

        Anyway, good news. I finally got rid of the 120 hz hum. Voltage to the output tube plates were being fed before going through the filter choke. I rewired to go after the filter choke and no more hum. I guess someone made a mistake when they upgraded to the series caps.

        MC

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by misterc57 View Post
          Voltage to the output tube plates were being fed before going through the filter choke. I rewired to go after the filter choke and no more hum. I guess someone made a mistake when they upgraded to the series caps.
          As long as it's the stock choke (or equivalent). Sometimes people will use a cheaper replacement that can not handle the current, so they move it to the other side of the OT supply node. A choke that can run the power tube plate current is big and expensive.

          "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by g1 View Post
            As long as it's the stock choke (or equivalent). Sometimes people will use a cheaper replacement that can not handle the current, so they move it to the other side of the OT supply node. A choke that can run the power tube plate current is big and expensive.
            Hmmm. Not sure, here is a pic. Looks like 27-3100 606942.

            Now that you mention it, looks like someone intentionally moved the B+ tap before the choke (because the wire was extended to reach it). soundmasterg, did the 110 uF capacitance at the first stage have any 120 hz hum issues?

            Last edited by misterc57; 05-04-2021, 12:26 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by misterc57 View Post

              Hmmm. Not sure, here is a pic. Looks like 27-3100 606942.
              No pic showing, is it same as the one on the left in this pic?

              Click image for larger version

Name:	sceptre11.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	105.7 KB
ID:	930731


              Looks kind of small for plate current to me, but soundmasterg mentioned it running the plates on another forum, so I defer to his expertise that the schematic is correct.
              ( https://www.talkbass.com/threads/196...#post-11684766 )
              "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by g1 View Post
                No pic showing, is it same as the one on the left in this pic?

                Click image for larger version

Name:	sceptre11.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	105.7 KB
ID:	930731


                Looks kind of small for plate current to me, but soundmasterg mentioned it running the plates on another forum, so I defer to his expertise that the schematic is correct.
                ( https://www.talkbass.com/threads/196...#post-11684766 )
                Yes looks like the same choke. Not sure why you do not see the pic I posted, I see it in the thread. Here it is again. Thank you

                Click image for larger version

Name:	filter-choke.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	175.1 KB
ID:	930738 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20210503_160228069.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	2.27 MB
ID:	930739

                Comment


                • #53
                  Should I look for that small choke getting hot or some other indication?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I think it should be fine, but yeah, make sure it's not getting too hot. I'm probably being overly cautious and mistaken in my idea of size vs. current capability.
                    "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by misterc57 View Post


                      soundmasterg, did the 110 uF capacitance at the first stage have any 120 hz hum issues?

                      Nope. Imagine the circuit the same exact way it is now but with a 110uF 700V cap in place of that one that is there. That is essentially what is being done. The caps are added in series and also need to have resistors in parallel with each cap to share the voltage. It becomes a node with essentially the equivalent of a 110uF 700V cap (assuming you use 220uF 350V caps). 220k 1W resistors are good to use in parallel with the caps. Assuming all soldering was done correctly and there is nothing wrong with the choke, then it should work well with some quicker bass response and less hum, since larger caps are more efficient at removing 120 cycle hum. There could be a problem with the choke, especially if someone bypassed the choke with the previous mods. Triode Electronics probably still sells an exact clone choke, though you can get them elsewhere too as long as it has the same or better specs.

                      Greg

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        The re-wiring had the B+ fed at the first filter cap, before the choke (like a Fender Bassman 100 or Bassman 50 layout). The choke is still in circuit. I moved the B+ connection to come after the choke (as per the Sunn schematic) and the 120 hz hum was gone. This is with the single 30 uF 600V cap at the first stage.

                        The amp has been set aside for now, but when I get back to it my next step is to see if the choke gets hot (would this happen quickly or take some time?). And eventually, go back to the series caps and voltage divider resistors, at the first stage after I order some caps.
                        Last edited by misterc57; 05-11-2021, 02:34 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by misterc57 View Post
                          The re-wiring had the B+ fed at the first filter cap, before the choke (like a Fender Bassman 100 or Bassman 50 layout). The choke is still in circuit. I moved the B+ connection to come after the choke (as per the Sunn schematic) and the 120 hz hum was gone. This is with the single 30 uF 600V cap at the first stage.

                          The amp has been set aside for now, but when I get back to it my next step is to see if the choke gets hot (would this happen quickly or take some time?). And eventually, go back to the series caps and voltage divider resistors, at the first stage after I order some caps.
                          It sounds like someone did the mod and didn't rewire it correctly, or wasn't familiar with how Sunn did it as opposed to Fender and screwed it up. It hummed with the B+ tap before the choke because the one RC stage isn't sufficient to get rid of the hum, but when the choke is there also then it is. When you add back the series connected caps with the larger values and have the choke wired up correctly then it should be quieter than stock. I bet the choke is fine since it is working now with the smaller cap but with the correct wiring. With the larger caps it will sound quicker in the bass, but the amount of bass won't really change. It is just a little tighter and quicker, and it hums a little less too.

                          Greg
                          Last edited by soundmasterg; 05-13-2021, 10:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            As I remember, those chokes measure about 50 Ohms.
                            WARNING! Musical Instrument amplifiers contain lethal voltages and can retain them even when unplugged. Refer service to qualified personnel.
                            REMEMBER: Everybody knows that smokin' ain't allowed in school !

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X