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Mesa 440 Rocket high frequency noise generator machine

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  • Mesa 440 Rocket high frequency noise generator machine

    Hello gentlemen,

    Been a while since I have worked on an amp that stumped me this much so here it goes. This amp makes noise in the preamp all the time on both channels basically a high pitched near the end of audible noise, the frequency changes when the channel is switched. The only place I could find noise with an oscilloscope in the preamp without the tubes installed is here:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kxf...usp=share_link

    In the power section after regulating to +/- 3v for the channel switching components of the amp. Of course this noise propagates all through the channel switching section. My question here: Since this is not strictly connected to the audio anywhere, was this section meant to be pure dc or is it ok that it has noise? If it's not ok, what components would you recommend testing/replacing to fix it?

    Once I install V1 and V2, I have noise everywhere in the preamp. Here is an image of the noise appearing at the lead gain and rythm gain:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	440_signal_noise.jpg Views:	0 Size:	127.6 KB ID:	979741
    Strange part is, when I yank out V1, which is after V2 in the schematic, the noise goes away. Also, if I switch to rhythm channel the noise goes away to the oscilloscope, but returns when all tubes are installed and amp is on. All dc voltages on the tubes are about twice what they should be, IE 300 volts to plate and cathode is ~2vdc. This stays approximately the same regardless of how many tubes I have installed. Also I should mention that grid dc is 0 on all grids so nothing obvious with the coupling caps.

    I am not super good at this, but my current theories are:
    -That HV power supply noise is getting in somehow that I can't detect when tubes are out
    -That the noise in the +/- 3vdc heater circuit for V1/V2 and footswitch circuit are somehow getting into the signal chain early, hence my inability to detect it when tubes are removed. Is this possible?

    Someone throw me a bone here,

  • #2
    Please post complete schematic and show scope pics with better resolution allowing to see the settings and readouts.
    - Own Opinions Only -

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    • #3
      Complete schematics that I have are located here:
      https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=23560.0

      I am unable to upload more images of any reasonable size due to the upload size restrictions here. Suffice to say that the waveforms are clearly visible and I recorded the P-P values and scope assumed frequency above each scope screenshot. Any help is appreciated.

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      • #4
        I want to cross-check the noise fundamntal frequencies. Digital scopes sometimes display a wrong frequency when the signal is noisy or non-sinusoidal.
        Please post the time base settings (ms/div) with scope pics.

        BTW, something like 2kHz is not really "near the end of audible noise".
        - Own Opinions Only -

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        • #5
          Maybe a longshot, but does the oscillation change if you tap on the front panel? I recently worked on a Rocket that had some weird noise issues, ended up being a pot whos case had loosened some and it was not getting proper contact from wiper to trace. IIRC all the pots were getting sloppy so I crimped all the cases down tight.

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          • #6
            For frequency of +/-3VDC supply see these images (drive upload potato quality from phone but can clearly see v/div):
            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L0X...usp=share_link


            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q3I...usp=share_link

            For the LD gain here it is:
            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NjC...usp=share_link

            For rhythm gain it is here:
            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BTP...usp=share_link

            I have tapped all over this thing with a popsicle stick and only found a microphonic capacitor which I replaced and it made no difference to my ears but it is no longer microphonic. The EQ and gain controls affect these waveforms a bit. Have of course tried swapping preamp tubes for another known good set, bypassing fx loop, tapping tubes, etc... Thanks for your help! I will test what you want me to and respond, like I said this one is a real head scratcher.

            EDIT: Also, here is a rocket schematic which shows the intricacies of where the +/- 3VDC applies to the channel switching circuit:

            https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HNr...usp=share_link

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            • #7
              Originally posted by stasis190 View Post
              For frequency of +/-3VDC supply see these images (drive upload potato quality from phone but can clearly see v/div):
              https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L0X...usp=share_link
              ]
              The distance between equal consecutive peaks is about 3.3 div(isions), multiplied by the time scale of 5mV/div gives a period of 16.5ms corresponding to a fundamental frequency of 60.6Hz. So your frequency readout is wrong here.

              The readouts in the other pics look ok.

              Now as the circuit uses full-wave rectification I'd expect 120Hz ripple on both sides of the +/- 3V supply. Also the ripple amplitude looks too high.
              Check AC and DC voltages as well as circuit components.
              Last edited by Helmholtz; 03-30-2023, 07:51 PM.
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