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JMI Vox AC-30 Component Replacements and Voicing

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  • JMI Vox AC-30 Component Replacements and Voicing

    So I'm almost there with restoring a late 60's Vox AC-30 (JMI circuit). Some questions I'd like to seek the group's thoughts on. Many thanks in advance!

    1) In attempts to make as period correct as possible, will look to change back all metal/carbon film resistors to carbon comp resistors. It appears the market supply of 1 watt carbon comps is severely depleted everywhere. May I confirm using 1/2 watts should be fine? I'm inclined to focus more on the tone signal path and perhaps leave metal film on the power side (and even the vib/trem circuit as I don't really use all that much)

    2) I noticed the currently installed dual main filter capacitor "can" (C39, C40) is labelled/rated at 32uf/32uf rather than the expected 16uf/16uf as listed in the schematics. I'm tempted to switch this back, but I feel I should perhaps at least investigate possible reasons a previous tech may have installed the higher capacitance. I'm seeing mixed comments with regards to Vox possibly intentionally upping the value in the late 60's. Anything I should particularly measure or take a look at to avoid frying something by switching back to 16uf? Any difference in sound I should expect? Bear in mind this used to be modded and wired for solid state rectification, and I reverted back to GZ34 tube rectification. I see a lot of feedback that 16uf is way too small for "today's standards" but I'm not sure what that really means? Safety standards, or tolerance of noise/hiss standards? I don't mind the latter if the trade off is that it gives me a more pleasing tone.

    3) Also noticed the currently installed filter capacitor for the tremolo circuit (on the underside of the chassis) is labelled/rated at 32uf/350v rather than 450v. Should I worry and make the change to 450v or ok to leave as is?

    4) The power tube cathode bias resistor appears to be two 220ohm resistors running in parallel, which I understand is a net 110ohm resistor. Noted original schematics show 50ohm, but perhaps that will cook the el84's too hot. I've got a Xircon 68ohm ceramic resistor I'm looking to replace them with, but again, anything I should check before sort of blindly making this switch? I do realize the tubes will run a bit hotter, but not to a point of danger to components, and I'm hoping to get a more pleasant tone. Again, any possible reason a previous tech overshot and went with 110ohm, which I think is pretty much on the extreme "cold" biasing side. And perhaps a very newbie question, I noticed one of the 4 el84's has become slightly microphonic (i.e. tapping with a chopstick results in a loud thump sound, but when playing or idle, i don't notice anything). I presume running a hotter bias will accelerate its death. I've read some debates about not needing to perfectly "match" the power tubes in the AC-30s because of the cathode biasing, would I be doing something extremely stupid in simply replacing the one power tube with another brand which will most likely be "unmatched"?

    5) I've read post '67, Vox removed the cathode bypass cap in the early gain stage for the top boost channel. I just see a piece of wire between the two lugs on my unit so this appears to be consistent. Contemplating putting the 25uf capacitor back in as per original earlier top boost schematics. Is it just higher volume and earlier breakup or perhaps a different tone profile? Any idea why Vox did away with the capacitor in '67 in the first place?

    6) And perhaps the most important item I'm trying to address. The amp currently sounds way too mid-rangey, even on the brilliant/top boost channel with treble maxed and bass/cut minimum. It sounds nothing like another mid-60's AC-30 I own. I'm only able to gain a semi-decent tone when adding some sort of treble booster in front, but ideally I'd like to avoid doing that as it still doesn't give me the crisp sparkly highs ("chime") I get from the other AC-30. Besides focusing on the below cap values (aim to replace any with 10-20% drift from "normal"), any other capacitors/resistors I should be measuring and focusing on to "open" up the tone so that it's less "nasal" and mid-rangey? On another thread, someone mentioned and suggested it may be the late 60's T1088's (albeit with original pulsonic cones) where Celestion may have slightly altered the cone/voice coils to make more efficient to compete in the high gain/wattage volume wars heading into the 70's. I've swapped out the original speakers with the other alnico silver bells from my mid-60's AC-30 and still getting an undesirable tone, so I'm focusing on a drift somewhere in the components. Any other "custom" changes/tweaks (from the original schematic values) most users have found to achieve more pleasant tones would also be appreciated.




    That's all. Thanks again in advance for spending the time to read and provide any thoughts in pointing me to the right direction.​​
    Last edited by Butler_B73; 04-05-2023, 05:37 PM.

  • #2
    If you want the original sound and reliability, fit the original specification components.
    50R bias, 16u smoothing etc. Not anything that was at hand.
    Why spoil a successful amplifier.
    Support for Fender, Laney, Marshall, Mesa, VOX and many more. https://jonsnell.co.uk
    If you can't fix it, I probably can.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. 1/2W is fine in the signal path. The main issue I have is the small physical size of modern carbon comps - they look a little lost in a vintage amp.

      2. 32uf+32uf gives a little less PSU ripple (and hence noise), but stiffens up the power supply and changes the compression characteristics, altering note dynamics. With later (Korg) 'AC30s' they made the PSU capacitance switchable for a vintage or modern feel. Increasing capacitance loads the rectifier a little more, but is within the spec of a GZ34. I prefer the original values myself because with a vintage amp I want it to sound as close to when it was new as possible to get the same impression as the first owner who bought that amp and plugged it in for the first time.

      3. I would take the opportunity to change it back to 450v. It's just the price of a single cap.

      4. AC30s run the power tubes really hot and I see the output tubes as ultimately disposable. Original tubes withstand abuse more than modern ones and where reliability is an issue consider installing EL84M tubes. I stick with original resistor values - that's the sound and that's how the amps were designed. Don't replace one tube out of a set. A tube goes microphonic because the internal assembly becomes loosened and isn't necessarily linked to how hot the tubes are biased - it's a mechanical fault. Mismatched tubes in AC30s causes hum.

      5. The bypass cap will increase gain of that stage considerably, resulting in earlier breakup. It also changes the volume control position (more volume at lower rotation). Ultimately power output and overall volume is determined by the power amp clipping. Bear in mind that when the AC30 was designed, pickup output was fairly low. This increased over the years and perhaps Vox took the decision later on to reduce the gain to keep the amp clean with higher pickup outputs, but that's just a guess on my part. No harm in experimenting to see how you like the difference. My suggestion is to do this change when everything else is done, otherwise making multiple changes at once masks the true difference.

      6. You could have a fault, or it could be down to stacked tolerances. Start off by checking tone stack and pot values. Someone may have installed an incorrect value here or anywhere else, especially as resistor types have been changed. If the tone stack components are off, insert the values into Duncan's TSC and take a look at the control sweep. You may need to trace the signal path right the way through the amp and check every value. Bear in mind that many original parts had a wide tolerance when new compared to modern components. Even if all components are the correct values you may have HF loss due to unwanted resistance or capacitance to ground. If you have a scope and signal generator set the frequency to where the high-end is being lost and trace through the circuit to pinpoint the affected stage.
      Last edited by Mick Bailey; 04-06-2023, 04:17 PM. Reason: typo

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, Mick and Jon. Super helpful response and level of detail! Greatly appreciate your time.

        I've got some homework and parts ordering to do and will report back with status and findings. On a separate but related note, would either of you know of a good and proper replacement potentiometer for the brilliant channel volume knob for vintage AC-30s? I know it's supposed to be 500k log, smooth shaft (screw tightening), and general preference for Alpha, but if someone can point me to the exact spec'd model in the below link, that would be greatly appreciated.

        https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/potentiometers_0

        Also, any good known sources/suppliers of 1watt carbon comps would also be extremely helpful. Most sites seem to be out of the more popular values at 1watt with no plans of replenishing stock.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Butler_B73 View Post
          Thanks, Mick and Jon. Super helpful response and level of detail! Greatly appreciate your time.

          I've got some homework and parts ordering to do and will report back with status and findings. On a separate but related note, would either of you know of a good and proper replacement potentiometer for the brilliant channel volume knob for vintage AC-30s? I know it's supposed to be 500k log, smooth shaft (screw tightening), and general preference for Alpha, but if someone can point me to the exact spec'd model in the below link, that would be greatly appreciated.

          https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/potentiometers_0

          Also, any good known sources/suppliers of 1watt carbon comps would also be extremely helpful. Most sites seem to be out of the more popular values at 1watt with no plans of replenishing stock.
          Looks like you are there; https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...on-composition
          https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...ters=1052a1054
          I always fit Carbon Film or Metal Film/Oxide as they are more reliable and do not alter any sound from the AC30. Use CC if you want to though.
          Support for Fender, Laney, Marshall, Mesa, VOX and many more. https://jonsnell.co.uk
          If you can't fix it, I probably can.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jon Snell View Post

            Looks like you are there; https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...on-composition
            https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...ters=1052a1054
            I always fit Carbon Film or Metal Film/Oxide as they are more reliable and do not alter any sound from the AC30. Use CC if you want to though.
            Thanks, Jon. Any thoughts as to which potentiometer in the link is the right one? I can't seem to find any threads pointing me to the vintage correct specs. There are so many options!

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't have an AC30 to hand, but I think the correct spec is 1/4" shaft, 3/8" bushing and 1" case diameter. Why not measure one of the existing pots and check the spec against this; https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...dio-38-bushing

              Comment


              • #8
                Did you try swapping tubes between your amps?
                - Own Opinions Only -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                  I don't have an AC30 to hand, but I think the correct spec is 1/4" shaft, 3/8" bushing and 1" case diameter. Why not measure one of the existing pots and check the spec against this; https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...dio-38-bushing
                  Thanks, Mick. I think I got the sizes down, but not sure if any particular variation of the potentiometer, but yeah, I think the one you've highlighted should be the right one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                    Did you try swapping tubes between your amps?
                    Yes, but no luck, same nasal mid-range tone. Looks like some of the coupling caps values are high, particular C5 and C7 which should be 0.047uf but measuring twice that value at around 0.1uf. Have some parts on order to replace those. Someone also suggested I check the grounding as well, so will look into that. This one is quite tricky...

                    Comment

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