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Carlsbro Hornet behaving weirdly

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  • Carlsbro Hornet behaving weirdly

    I'm refurbing a Carlsbro Hornet amp from the early 70s. It has a weird problem where if you leave it for a few hours then power it up everything is fine and very loud, but after playing guitar through it for around 15 minutes the volume starts to drop to a very low level within a minute or so. I've put a voltmeter across the power supply (there's a +49V and a +24V rail but I can't find any -ve rail – maybe it's not aClass B amp?) and the +49V line at least doesn't appear to drop when the scope across the output speaker shows the amplitude dropping after the initial 'cold' period. You then need to wait at least an hour before the amp powers up as normal and goes through the whole cycle again!

    I need to check the +24V supply but are there any suggestions for what could be the issue? It doesn't like an electrolytic failure though they're all original and none have any obvious leak/bulge.

    Once the output has declined to a low level it also behave oddly after turning off for a minute. On powering up with a tone injected at input, there's no output for at least 30secs as if it was a valve amp warming up! The output then appears looking very clipped but the waveform becomes more normal as it increases over about 30secs, though only growing to the 'reduced' level. Another baffling thing is that I set the input to around 100mV, but the input signal goes up as I wind the amp volume up! At max volume when the amp deliver just over 100W RMS into an 8 ohm dummy load the input grows to 300mV!

    Can't find a circuit diagram anywhere for this which doesn't help. The power amp drives a pair of 2N3055s which don't feel any more than warm when the problem arises, but they're heatsinked by the aluminium chassis. Could a 2N3055 behave like this?

    Thanks for any suggestions.

  • #2
    2N3055s will supply up to 70Watts of power, any more and they will destroy themselves. Your measurements are probably peak to peak.
    The schematic will be similar to the sidewinder or cobra.
    Semiconductors either work, go noisy or short/open circuit. Very unusual to go 'quiet'.

    You cannot refurbish a piece of equipment without allof the relevant data to hand.
    It will be a class B amp if ithas a bridge rectufier and two large smoothing capacitors.
    Show a photo of the insides and I will be able to tell you which amplifier it is.

    More than likely it will be a dried up coupling capacitor or current source resistor that is changing value with heat.
    Support for Fender, Laney, Marshall, Mesa, VOX and many more. https://jonsnell.co.uk
    If you can't fix it, I probably can.

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    • #3
      Sorry yes p-p and I measured that slightly wrong! I’ve just remeasured and it’s around 40W using just the peak.

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      • #4
        There is a large 2.2K with 45V across it that’s getting alarmingly hot. There’s a bridge or 4 diodes in supply at any rate and two large electrolytics but what’s throwing me is those two caps are connected in parallel, not in series to give a +/0/- supply. I’ll post a photo of the board but I keep getting a message that I've exceeded upload quota though I'm resizing it smaller.
        Last edited by Stratfordade; 03-22-2024, 09:47 AM.

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        • #5
          Not all SS amps (PP class A, AB or B) use dual rail (+/-) supplies.
          Especially early ones just had a single supply voltage requiring the speaker to be AC coupled by a big ecap in series with the speaker output.
          Your 49V should be good for around 50W into a 4 Ohm load.
          - Own Opinions Only -

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
            Not all SS amps (PP class A, AB or B) use dual rail (+/-) supplies.
            Especially early ones just had a single supply voltage requiring the speaker to be AC coupled by a big ecap in series with the speaker output.
            Your 49V should be good for around 50W into a 4 Ohm load.
            Thank you that’s very helpful. Of course Sod’s Law says I’m now struggling to invoke the fault! I think I’ll carefully check underside of board once I’m sure no leads risk being fractured.

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            • #7
              Jon Snell was spot on. I don’t know how I managed to miss it since I’d been staring at the PCB for hours when monitoring things, but an electrolytic connected to main vol pot was leaking! Very dried up so no damage to board and only small but telling extrusion from cap end. Once it was shipped out and replaced the amp immediately started behaving normally and sounds much better! Thanks Jon Snell for alerting me to possibility.

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              • #8
                Pleased you found it.
                Lovelly Old School amplifiers. Dead basic but work well.
                Pleased to help.
                Support for Fender, Laney, Marshall, Mesa, VOX and many more. https://jonsnell.co.uk
                If you can't fix it, I probably can.

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