Vox AC30/ 6 (TBX). Add an MV ?

[Chuck H]

Here's a short post then.

The preamp is always situated before the power amp in the signal path. 'power amp before preamp' as used here just means the power amp clips before the preamp does because the preamp is feeding it too much signal.

Thank you Dave. I somehow missed in his wording that SC might be percievieving the power amp in front of the preamp. We have been clear that the power amp CLIPS before the preamp and never said it IS before the preamp. I'd even explained more than once that the preamp must remain clean in order to drive the power tubes to full amplifier wattage for a full volume clean sound. Maybe your wording rather than mine will help clarify what is happening for SC.

[Chuck H]

Wait, what'd I miss? Is this a good thing or bad thing? Where the hell am I? What happened to that guy's head?

Jusrin

If you look at Orange amp face plates you'll see that they often use symbols instead of words. The ones that do use words sometimes have both "gain" and "distortion" controls (as well as symbols). The idea being that they can be confusing and need decoding even more than other amps.

[Sea Chief]

To be honest chaps I'm getting further away from understanding, more & more mixed up. This Gain thing for eg, now I read it's been used on the thread differently for both distortion, & well for something else (I don't understand enough to describe) possibly Gain stage... means this aspect instead of becoming clearer, has become doubly confusing. I'm not just a bit lost- I'm utterly bewildered by this aspect, plonked ontop, of the difference between vol & mv which I was already struggling with. But entirely my fault: I asked what this Gain knob is, & I shouldn't have in retrospect. I turn it & it's like a distortion pedal, so why I needed to know anymore than this, & confuse myself by asking what it actually is... wasn't neccessary (or was it relevant- so lost I cannot answer this).

Someone said too, that my Gain knob on my Randall RD5.. is effectively an MV knob, further mashing my head in. I was of the gradual thinking that this Gain aspect was becoming more & more set apart from this MV & Vol situation. Until someone said this. Crikey I got a noggin-wallop at this juncture.

The symbols on Orange amps, mean that instead of making things -easier- for you who understand all this, for me it = additional confusion. Why would they put symbols on would be my question, because it just makes things less clear.

I think I can only affect changes, tweak things, build things, amps even (sold a DR head I built, for £1234 on eBay 3 yrs ago!!).. without knowing how they work, what some knobs actually do, sigh. Nevermind.

To your credit chaps: you've shown me much kindness with your attempts! Very grateful indeed.

Capt

[g1]

Someone said too, that my Gain knob on my Randall RD5.. is effectively an MV knob, further mashing my head in.

No one said this.

[Helmholtz]

Your AC30 has one preamp volume per channel.
The only way to get some distortion with this amp is to turn this volume knob up (as said, a booster or overdrive before the amp helps).
You could add a MV to bring loudness down, but will sacrifice power amp distortion.
As simple as that.

For other amps find and read the amp's manual.

[Sea Chief]

Your AC30 has one preamp volume per channel.
The only way to get some distortion with this amp is to turn this volume knob up (as said, a booster or overdrive before the amp helps).
You could add a MV to bring loudness down, but will sacrifice power amp distortion.
As simple as that.

For other amps find and read the amp's manual.

The Vol knobs on my AC 30 are -preamp- Vols?? So I do not have a power amp vol on this amp?? I get more & more confused with every post.

One person says my Gain knob on my Randall should be considered like a MV. Next I'm told Gain things are preamp based. So I can only deduce from this that MV is preamp related (how can I not?). And this makes some form, a semblence of logic to me; IE I can only picture a situation where there's an ADDED/ ADDITIONAL knob that drives the preamp into clipping/ distortion.... & a *knob which controls the overall volume. What this *other knob is called I have not established yet; but; this basic principle, is the only thing I can possibly, logically accept.

Now. I might go just one tentative step further, & think it logical, that the *knob that has ultimate control over the final volume MIGHT be called the Master (BECAUSE the word suggests it has AUTHORITY over the knob which simply says Volume). But it seems the very opposite might be true if I'm told Gain is preamp, & MV is effectively like my Gain knob. Maybe HH means I have 3x MV's in my AC30, but no Vols. But the amp does say Vol. Strewth.

It's literally giving me headaches trying to decipher each reply, bouncing back & forth as to where this mystery MV relates to now, & like scary loud amp Pops I don't think it is good for my health/ stress.

(Loudness. It also seems I've now got a new word to add to the mix too. So now Vol & MV seems to have expanded to Gain, Loudness, Master Volume. Preamp Volume. Poweramp Volume).

---

Fluffy mini rescue horse. Need extra time tonight.

SC

[Helmholtz]

The Vol knobs on my AC 30 are -preamp- Vols??

Exactly!

So I do not have a power amp vol on this amp??

No, as that would be a Master Volume, which an AC30 doesn't have.

Just read my posts. I'm fed up of repeating myself over and over.

[nosaj]

Can you not just twiddle with the knows to determine what you like?
do you need to understand it to use it or can you use it and then understand it? I am the latter always have been just fiddle till it sounds right.
Nosaj

[g1]

One person says my Gain knob on my Randall should be considered like a MV. Next I'm told Gain things are preamp based.

No one said this, stop mis-quoting what people said. And reference the posts you are referring to.

[Sea Chief]

Exactly!



No, as that would be a Master Volume, which an AC30 doesn't have.

Just read my posts. I'm fed up of repeating myself over and over.

Sorry, but this is new info for me. I cannot imagine how an amp cannot have a power amp volume control, but only a preamp one. This doesn't make any logical sense to me. I always thought if an amp had only one Vol, then it has to be the main power section IE where all the preamp & prior stages are ultimately fed into.

Surely you can see why I think this is simply logical. And so you surprised me saying my amp has only preamp volume. I find this a really strange concept (& tbh I cannot get my head around it), & have never even considered it before your post.

If you are repeating yourself it's only because I haven't understood it. Obviously.

SC

[Sea Chief]

No one said this, stop mis-quoting what people said. And reference the posts you are referring to.

Yes they did maybe not you. And Gain stages, have been repeatedly said to be in the preamp section g1.

Don't tell me, now you're suggesting they reside in the power section..?

SC

[Sea Chief]

Can you not just twiddle with the knows to determine what you like?
do you need to understand it to use it or can you use it and then understand it? I am the latter always have been just fiddle till it sounds right.
Nosaj

I'm just trying to understand it, but yes I could just twiddle knobs, but this has been decades of not understanding the interaction between a Vol & a MV, always wondering what the difference is, why there are two, why sometimes one seems to be called a Gain knob.

I never knew it would be so hard to get the basics of though. The frustrating thing is everyone else seems to find it incredibly simple. The very idea seemingly just landed on me at this late stage, that a non-master Vol amp only has a preamp vol.. has utterly fried my head. I think I have to give up now.

Thanks, SC

[Helmholtz]

I cannot imagine how an amp cannot have a power amp volume control, but only a preamp one.

A preamp volume controls the signal volume (or level) to all following amp stages including the power amp.
Should be obvious, no?
All non-master volume amps only have preamp volume.

[Dave H]

Sorry, but this is new info for me. I cannot imagine how an amp cannot have a power amp volume control, but only a preamp one.

Why not? The volume control could be located at any point along the signal path.

[g1]

Yes they did maybe not you. And Gain stages, have been repeatedly said to be in the preamp section g1.

Don't tell me, now you're suggesting they reside in the power section..?

SC

No, you yourself said it in post #55, now you claim someone else said it.
Stop mis-representing what people said, use direct quotes.