Fender DRRI

[Brad1]

Not quite keeping up with the Hot Rod Deluxes and Vibratone, etc., at the local open mic jams.

Good tubes. Works fine...just not quite enough clean balls. Running volume on Vibrato input about 8-1/2, Treble on 7-8, and Bass about 4-5. Any more on the Bass gets woofy.

Effects are Dunlop Hendrix Wah>Tube Screamer>Boss DM2 Analog Delay. Last week I added a DOD 250 OD/Preamp to the end of the chain to try to goose the input of the amp a bit more with Level about 80%, and the gain brought up as little as possible, about 30%. Helped a little, but still not quite there. Plus, it just amplifies any effects hiss. The Tube Screamer sounds OK when it's on, and adds enough with the level to keep up, but I need some clean, and to leave the Tube Screamer set where it is when I kick it in. May try putting the DOD pedal right after the Tube Screamer, and using them separately, but I'd rather just leave it out. So, I had another thought.

Before I go through the trouble, would like opinions on whether changing the stock Jensen C12K to an EVM12L I have lying around might be worth a try?

Not much difference in published sensitivity:
C12K=99.1 dB
EVM12L=100 dB

Frequency response:
C12K=70Hz -7kHz
EVM12L=80Hz - 5khz

Resonant Frequency:
C12K=~107 Hz
EVM12L=~55 Hz

Anyone try an EVM12L in a DRRI? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

Thanks,

Brad1

[Jazz P Bass]

Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue

The Deluxe Reverb Reissue is a 22 watt amp. 6V6 output tubes.
I would suggest that you get a higher wattage amp.
Or a 15" extension speaker.
Seriously.

[Brad1]

The Deluxe Reverb Reissue is a 22 watt amp. 6V6 output tubes.
I would suggest that you get a higher wattage amp.
Or a 15" extension speaker.
Seriously.

Jazz, I realize that. This is just the highest wattage combo amp I have. I don't really want to haul my Marshall JCM800, or even my Bandmaster and cab around for a jam thing. I have even considered building a combo cab to put the Bandmaster head and 12" speaker in.

I was just wondering if anyone had tried an EVM12L in a DRRI, and if there was any perceptible difference to be worth the trouble. I may just go ahead and spend a few minutes to see what happens this week. I may even look around for a suitable speaker with a higher efficiency to see if I can get a bit more bark out of it. As it is, it's just BARELY not quite able to keep up with these guys, if I want clean. It does the job of keeping up goosing the input, but then, it's not clean.

Thanks,

Brad1

[Jazz P Bass]

More Sound

I hooked a 15" cab to a customers Princeton along with the stock speaker.
Made a world of difference in sound volume.
More speakers = more coverage.
Too bad this amp does not have an effects loop.
That is where you get louder clean.

[cminor9]

I have a hot rod deville. Never play it. I am actually thinking about selling it. Why? Because ITS TOO LOUD. What kind of guys go to an open mic and crack a hot rod deluxe wide open (are those 40W or 60w like the deville)? Bunch of wannabe rock stars, tell em to turn down and get off my lawn! For a jam session! Sheesh!

Sorry...I get kind of annoyed by people who play too loud. Especially at an open mic night jam session type thingie...it's like, what are they trying to prove? It's like those idiots with a beat up civic who try to street race you while you are driving around with your kids in the SUV. As if!

Anyway...I guess +1 on the ext cab or a more efficient speaker (though 1db won't get you much). You've just gotta move some more air, dude.

[BackwardsBoB]

Eminence can get you 6dB. A brighter speaker will at least be more annoying.

...But you'll trade the soul of your DRRI.

[MWJB]

Try 5881 power tubes, bias to 30mA per tube & ss rectifier.

[Enzo]

I don;t know, you want to be louder, a few more watts won;t do it, and the thing will only put out the power it has. Adding a speaker cab can help, not a different speaker, but more speakers.

The difference between 99.1 and 100 decibels is inaudible. If you double the power of the amp, you get 3db louder. That's all you get for all that extra power. 3db is audible but not a large change. Still, it is a change.

A quick look through some EMinence shows a number of over 100 speakers, and I bet they won;t weigh near as much as that EV behemoth. Cannabis Rex and the Governor both at 102db, and the Wizard at 103, and the Man O War at 105.6db. DOn't know if you'd like the speaker, but 105.6db is over 6db louder - same as 4 times the amp power. 6db is the difference between the high and low level jacks on your Fender Twin.

And don;t forget speaker placement. When you are not keeping up with the others, is it their amps where you sit are louder than your amp where you sit? How about out front? Same or different? How about your amp, is the speaker a beamer or does it spread the sound well? Might be a matter of aiming your speaker more at your head. Can the others not hear you either? On your jam stage, is your amp aiming out into space, or does it play into the back of the floor tom?

[chipaudette]

I've tried the EVM12L

Hi,

I've got a DRRI with the Jensen C12K as the stock speaker. I've also tried it with the EVM12L. I didn't like it. Here's a couple things to consider, though...

1) EASY SWAP: The EVM was a drop-in replacement. If you've already got the speaker, just do it. Totally disregard my opinion and make your own. If you've never swapped the speaker before, the procedure is:

Unscrew the two flimsy panels on the back of the amp. Then, from the inside of the amp, look in there and unscrew the 2 (?) black screws on either side of the front panel. The speaker is screwed/bolted to the front panel. From the back of the amp, push the whole front panel forward off the amp. Next, disconnect the speaker cable from the Jensen speaker. Then, unbolt the Jensen (the bolds stay attached to the front panel), take it off, and drop on the EVM and screw on the nuts to keep it in place. The hardest part is figuring out how to connect the wiring...the Jensen had taps while the EVM has spring-loaded wiring-grabbing thingies. I'd recommend using two short pieces of wire to solder to the DRRI's speaker cable (that you just pulled off the Jensen). Then, you just insert the other end in the EVM. Finally, put the amp back together. With a power drill to get off all the screws on the flimsy back panels, I changed my speaker in 15 minutes or so.

2) THEY SOUND DIFFERENT: The frequency response of the EVM is way different then the Jensen. This could be good or bad depending on what you're looking for. For me, I didn't like the frequency response of the EVM for the DRRI. To my ears, it has much more upper-mids and lower-treble. It's not that it goes higher in frequency...no...the Jensen goes higher (has a little more sizzle, which I like). No, the EVM is just louder in the upper-mids and treble frequencies. It's sorta sounds like turning your treble knob way higher...kinda, sorta. As a result, I feel that the EVM sounded louder than the Jensen even if the specs are the same. It's a perception thing. Anyway, the different frequency response of the EVM changes the mojo of the amp. I feel that the DRRI with the Jensen is very relaxed and layed back (though bright in a high-treble way). I felt that it is very Fender-y (duh). The DRRI with the EVM, however, feels more like it's shouting at you. For everyday playing, I didn't like it. But, if you want to cut through more at a gig, the EVM might help you get there.

Chip

[chipaudette]

8.5 on volume will never be clean

Oh, and re-reading your post, you say that you run the volume on 8.5? You'll never have a clean sound at that setting.

Depending on my pickups (humbucker or single coil), my DRRI starts to get dirty around 3 (humbuckers). By 4-5 (humbuckers), the amp is really cooking and it's loud as heck. On 8.5 you must be really saturating.

With single coils, I can go another one notch higher or so.

So, yeah, you'll never be clean on 8.5. If your amp is like mine, and if you want clean, you'll have to stay down below 4.

Chip

[BackwardsBoB]

MWJB - Replace 6V6s with 5881s and up the B+ to 450V? Sounds like a smoke generator to me... are the transformers up to it?

[Brad1]

Thanks guys. I put in just to see what happens, and had to do slight movement of the OT because it was in the way of the big cast frame of the EV. I'm going to crank it over at the practice pad this weekend to see what happens. If I don't like it, I may just change it back, and try using the EV as an extension in it's own cab, though I really didn't want to carry more than an amp, guitar and bag into the place.

I did actually take a StandBack tilt stand last time, and I could hear it OK, but when I wandered out in front, I was pretty much buried. It's also away from any walls, all the way to stage left by an open space, so maybe if I can get it UP on something, and back closer to the rear wall....?

Oh well. I'll see what happens. If nothing else, eventually I'll take in my Marshall and more manageable 2x12 vertical Boogie slant cab, if they really want to get into crazy loud. At least I'll know then that I'll be heard. (Until everyone goes deaf).

Thanks,

Brad1

[MWJB]

Backwards Bob asked, "MWJB - Replace 6V6s with 5881s and up the B+ to 450V? Sounds like a smoke generator to me... are the transformers up to it?" Yes, no problem. I don't know where "B+ up to 450" came from, I never said that?

Back in the day before the newer, high voltage, 6V6 tubes came on the market, this was a typical tweak for hi voltage Deluxe/Deluxe Reverb owners who didn't want to splash out on NOS 6V6.

A couple of guys I know run their DRs like this (or with a GZ34) & have done for years, with a good speaker they can handle all but the biggest stages/outdoor gigs.

[Brad1]

Update

Well...didn't really work, as I suspected from the responses. Changed a BIT, but still didn't like it. I may just swap them back, and connect the EV as an extension to see what happens. Was trying to avoid carrying in more than a guitar, a bag and a combo amp.

Heck, if I'm gonna do that, I might as well try instead just hauling the BF Bandmaster and the EV cab.

Heck, if I'm gonna do that, might as well just haul the Marshall head and 2-12 vertical slant Mesa Boogie cab (with 2 EVM12L's) that I normally play through.

I think part of the problem is that I've gotten used to, and spoiled by, the sound of the Marshall/Boogie combination. The Marshall is an early 80's vertical input JCM800 2203 Lead with 6550's, so it stays fairly clean, (and nice and "round") at a reasonable volume with the output around half, and the pre hovering around that. Any louder...and it does get LOUD, as my bandmates learned when they started a volume war once. (They haven't done it since).

We play some funk-type stuff, some blues and some R&R. I play clean for the funky-rhythm, TS9 for some blues, and Marshall DriveMaster pedal for the Neil Young/ZZ Top sort of stuff.

I can get the sounds with just a bit of a volume bump for leads, AND have clean with that setup. I just can't get clean with that DRRI in the bar with the guys jamming, and it throws me off.

Oh well. Thanks for the comments. It's mostly what I suspected in the first place, but now you know you were all pretty much correct....as if there were any doubts.

Brad1